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  #1  
Old 08-29-2011
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Toe Rail Recaulk

Toe Rail Recaulk

I'm at the stage in my chores that I'm digging out all the old caulking (3M
101 at the time - it's no longer available) to recaulk our toerail.

My fiberglass supplier, with a long history in the boatbuilding biz, is
recommending Bostic 940FS. Water cleanup and tooling, it looks easy to work
with, with a 20 minute skin time..

I'm having some serious questions as to the wisdom of using this material.
The 101 I'm taking out in some places is very resistant to removal (others
pull out fine with the V-shaped tool I'm using to get under the center and
catch the edges in one pass).

However, that's merely caulk, and not an adhesive. Knowing 5200's
reputation for later removal makes me think twice. I hope I don't, but
realistically I expect that at some point in the future, I'll be recaulking
the toe rail. Whether I'd be able to get this stuff out without treating it
(time, money, ?? impact on the paint/teak) is keeping my attention right
now.

Has anyone used this stuff (Bostic 940FS) to say how it behaves,
particularly in having to remove it?

Secondly, if you've had years of experience (how does it hold up?), if not
this, what do you use which is currently available (101's not)?

Thanks.

L8R

Skip

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  #2  
Old 08-29-2011
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PS It also, sez, however, that it's sandable and paintable after cure. Makes me wonder about how flexible it is once it's cured!

L8R

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  #3  
Old 08-30-2011
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Hi, and thanks for all the responses so far...

Based on many of the responses in the several places I posed this question,
I see that I wasn't sufficiently clear in my questions...

In hope of clarifying:

We are on a Morgan 461 built 33 years ago this month. The through-bolted
teak toe rail was bedded with whatever they used at the time, and to my
knowledge most likely has never been removed, other than a portion of the
starboard bow which was damaged in our wreck - which was replaced.

In its lifetime, the toe rail outer bottom(s), meeting the hull and deck,
has been caulked at least twice. I know that because we took out the old
caulk (easily removed, very old) when we did our initial refit, recaulking
with 3m 101, no longer available, and have now removed that 101 caulk we
applied during that refit, 7 years later.

We're recaulking because there are some leaks we presume to be coming
through that area. That's because our application (both deck and hull-side
exterior caulk lines) of Captain Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure, applied along
that line(s), MOSTLY (only - not completely) stopped them. Thus the recaulk
in hopes of killing those remaining leaks. We will NOT be removing the toe
rail, a massive disruption to our already torn-up boat.

My vendor has suggested we use Bostik 940FS for our recaulk. I have some
concerns about it. Though I hope I won't have to, I had to remove both the
earlier, and, now, this caulk, so I'm anticipating a potential removal of
whatever I put down this time in the long-distance future.

So, my question(s) was/were:

1) Has anyone used Bostik 940FS over any extended period, including having
to remove it, and, if so, what were the experiences with it as to sealing
and removing.

(Like 5200, it's an adhesive, not "just" a caulk. Knowing how challenging
5200 is to remove has me thinking I'd not better use this stuff. It's also
sandable and paintable, which makes me wonder about how flexible the stuff
is after cure.)

2) If not Bostik, what else, and with what results, were used long term?

4200 is a less permanent adhesive with about half the adhesion strength of
5200, and similar to the Bostik. It seems to be the replacement of choice
(now that 101 is no longer made) for many, though there are also a variety
of folks who are adamant against it.

Sikaflex, Lifecaulk and Boatlife products seem to have their followings and
detractors. One responder likes Dupont 795, the product we used to rebed
our aft hatch glass, but I believe it would be pretty messy to try to use it
for this particular application.

Other research suggests silicone based products are not appropriate for
sealing edges - but make fine gasket material. This is a silicone-based
product, another strike against it, so far...

If I were removing the toe rail, and for future deck beddings, I'd use Butyl
Tape, for its superior water-blocking and ease of use and cleanup, along
with virtually NO aging characteristics. Butyl caulk was mentioned, but
research (What Is Butyl Caulk?) suggests it's not
a good application for this in many ways. Butyl tape doesn't seem as though
it could be used for caulking, as nice as that might be However, I'm all
ears as to how one would get it into the crack, tool it, and have it cure to
the level that bumps and other potential disruptions to the seal would be of
no event.

So, back to the questions, relating strictly to recaulking:

1) Has anyone used Bostik 940FS over any extended period, including having
to remove it, and, if so, what were the experiences with it as to sealing
and removing.

2) If not Bostik 940FS (or the non-fast-set), what else, and with what
results (application hints/cautions and ease of removal), were used long
term?

Thanks!

L8R

Skip

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  #4  
Old 08-31-2011
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Don't know why this thread is not generating more interest, given the number of us that sail geriatric plastic boats with hull to deck joints covered by a toe rail. I just had the aluminum toe rail on my 1983 Hunter 37C replaced this spring (it was damaged by another boat during Earl last fall). The repairer used Sikaflex 291 LOT. The butyl tape on the underside of the old rail was still as sticky as the day it was put on. So ask me in ten years which is in better shape - the 40 yr-old butyl or the 10 yr-old Sika...

I would suggest tha caulking a teak toe rail is temporary fix, given how hard it is to get anything to bond to teak in the long haul. Re-bedding is the long term solution and I suspect that butyl tape would work well in that application. Unfortunately bedding a toerail is a big, messy, time consuming job. I can't comment on the Bostic product as I have never used it. Might be a good short term fix ... or not. Maybe MaineSail will chime in here.

PS: just wondering if the H-D joint on a Morgan is under that teak toe rail? If not, caulking might have some chance of success for a while, but I suspect rebedding is still the proper approach.

Last edited by jimjazzdad; 08-31-2011 at 07:08 AM. Reason: added comment
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