Which Boat? Help.. - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 37 Old 09-02-2011 Thread Starter
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Smile Choices

I know my selection is all over the place, but I have been looking for months and, I guess, boat condition is playing a bigger role than I had planned, that is why we looked at the Hunter. I have to disagree on the camber on the gunnels though, of the dozens of boats I have looked at and after spending a week sailing on a Pearson 36 I have never seen anything like this. It seem that it is there just to gain more space inside, people have trouble boarding the boat.

Both Mirages are pretty much perfect and seem to fit our needs the best but the other two remaining (O'Day with Hotfoot keel) and Catboat are just really good, well priced boats that have been looked after well. We are going for a sea trial on the catboat on Sunday. So, value and condition may be playing too much of a role......But economics are important these days. Thanks for your insights.
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post #12 of 37 Old 09-02-2011
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Originally Posted by kilby View Post
Both Mirages are pretty much perfect and seem to fit our needs the best but the other two remaining (O'Day with Hotfoot keel) and Catboat are just really good, well priced boats that have been looked after well.
I'm not familiar with any of these boats but if they are vastly different as has been noted, why buy a boat just because it's a good price when you found a different type of boat that "meets your needs"? I'll assume that the Mirage is still in your price range since you took the time to see it.

If you are concerned about the economic situation and you'll lose money owning a boat (any boat in your price range), I don't see the financial sense in buying a boat just because it's a good price if it doesn't meet your needs.

Now, if you just want any boat to get you out on the water, I'd get that. It wouldn't be something I'd do personally, but I'd understand it better.

Not that you care that I understand any of it. I'm just trying to follow your logic.

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post #13 of 37 Old 09-02-2011 Thread Starter
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Smile Choices

I guess that it seems that the cost of the boat is the most important factor in getting this boat...My fault, well the price of any purchase is important but it is the condition and sailing qualities that are most important, we can afford all the boats in question and certainly don't mind spending money to bring one up to to perfect condition. The catboat in question is priced at about 30% of comparable ones listed around North America, is only 10 years old,has a recent survey and the insurance company will re insure it easily, the Yanmar has only 130 hours on it, a very well built, strong boat that has a lot of character, the sea trial on Sunday will tell a lot more. The 25 foot 1987 Mirage is very well cared for boat that appears to need nothing and that is reflected in the fact that the asking price is $16,500 vs $8,500 for the 27' Mirage that needs some sweat and $$$$ invested. We have eliminated the Hunter which leaves just 4 to choose from. We have owned a 21 ft keelboat years ago so have some sailing experience and ideas of what we need. Moorage is always an issue here in Vancouver and I am pretty much guaranteed moorage for the 23' choices but need a bit more confirmation for the 25' and 27'. ....No moorage...no boat.
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post #14 of 37 Old 09-02-2011
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True, moorage here is a huge stumbling block.. and smaller boats are easier to find space for. More and more people we know are going to Pt Roberts or Blaine and putting up with the border hassle, esp with the larger boats. AFAIK Mosquito Creek in N Van seems the most available, but being behind the First Narrows bridge gets to be a pain, esp with a smaller slower boat.

I get that you want a boat... logical or otherwise we'll all get that. But buying to a price point alone probably won't ultimately make you happy and you'll be shopping again (or simply selling out) far too soon.

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post #15 of 37 Old 09-02-2011 Thread Starter
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price points

I agree Faster, buying for price point is not the way. I guess that the Catboat crept into the equation that way a bit. In the East, where they are popular, these boats sell for between $18,000 and $49,000, here it is less than $7000 and seems to be in at least as good condition and better than a lot. The fact that it is a 2001 build in the Sam Devlin type "Stitch and Glue" method with very little use and it does have a lot of character. We will see after this weekend's sail!

I have moorage for the 23, length at Fisherman's Cove which is a 20 minute drive from our home, I do like the location a lot! Thanks for your insight on this, it does make me think more objectively.
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post #16 of 37 Old 09-02-2011
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Fishermans' is a good location... are you at Thunderbird? A bit pricey....

The catboat style is a character boat, and some place that very high on their 'must have' list.. the beam usually provides a lot of space for the length. What you'll likely lose here, and this is as important to many too, is good weatherly light air performance. Cruising here in summer is generally a light air situation and if you're continually frustrated trying to get some boat speed you'll end up motoring more often than not.

Also, who built the boat? Not likely any production yard.. while an owner built boat can be an absolute work of art, and better than factory, in many instances this won't be the case. The problem here is that appearance alone won't tell you how well the construction was carried out. You may not see (yet) the results of the use of inferior fasteners, poor lamination, etc etc so extra caution is required. Eyes wide open and all that.... (not to mention survey, survey, survey)

You mention an ODay with a hotfoot keel.... more details? Again, who made the changes?

A true Hotfoot 27 is a fun, fast boat with minimal amenities but will sail dizzying circles around the Catboat.. a modified O Day will be another matter. I do think that for what you want, as a move up from 21 feet would be one of the Mirages, or something similar, esp if extended cruising to Desolation etc is in the cards.

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post #17 of 37 Old 09-02-2011 Thread Starter
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Well, down to 3 boats now. The Mirage 27 which is reasonably priced needs a new diesel engine and has some issues with keel caulking. Not had a survey for 6 years so will leave it for somebody with less stuff on their plate time wise.
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post #18 of 37 Old 09-02-2011 Thread Starter
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Faster. I actually know the builder of the boat, retired teacher who went to work with Devlin for 3 months to learn the methods and then built is with the help of his friend, a high school shop teacher with a few boat builds under his belt. I have crawled all over the inside of the boat and everything looks very well finished. It does have a 1 year old survey which looks very good. The boat owner's insurer has said that after he cancels his insurance that they will re insure me without another survey. The O'Day 23 is at the West Vancouver Yacht Club and I will be viewing it this afternoon. I'm not sure who added the Hotfoot 27 keel (5'3") but saw pictures on the hard, looks very well executed and is an obviously a well cared for boat, I will find out the particulars this afternoon. It comes with 7 sails and Evinrude 8 hp Sailmaster (has marine head) You are probably right about the Mirages...The 25 is likely the perfect choice for us.
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post #19 of 37 Old 09-02-2011
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Hi Kilby,

I have a similar budget to you, and am looking in the same area for something about the same size. Don't worry though, I don't want a catboat!

You're right about the prices seeming high - these Vancouverites seem to love their boats, but the ones I've seen just don't seem to be shifting, especially if they're nice examples. It would seem to me (with my non-existent knowledge of Canadian bargaining etiquette) that someone going along waving a wad of cash and being prepared to haggle will get a good discount off a given price. With that in mind, there's a nice CS27 on the island that looks sorted and hasn't moved in about 6 months. There are a lot of others just like it too...

Have you tried being cheeky and asking what people would accept?

For the real bargains, I too would be prepared to look south - I'm looking at one that I'd very much like to get, as the lead in the keel and the fittings are probably worth more than what I think a quick cash offer could get it for. That said, it's supposed to be mingin' (as they say in Scotland), but if one is prepared to put in some graft, I'm sure you can find a diamond in the rough.

Good luck!
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post #20 of 37 Old 09-02-2011 Thread Starter
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Smile Narrowed down to two

Armchairsailor2.

Lots of great boats for sale on the Island but moorage is hard to come by. People in Comox are buying boats with moorage then selling them cheaply to people who don't have moorage, kind of sad, as well young people aren't interested in yachting anymore and the industry is concerned. Looked at a very nice, reasonably priced O'Day 23 with many good modifications, same owner for 33 years, 7 sails very clean, asking $5,800. We are down to two though, the unusual Catboat and the clean, overpriced Mirage...Catboat sail on Sunday, will be interesting. Buying in the US is an option that many take advantage of but my life is a little too busy right now for that...I'll shop locally.
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