Cutter Rigged Sloop - SailNet Community
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 9 Old 09-02-2011 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Sacramento County
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Unhappy Cutter Rigged Sloop

I am trying to find a diagram that lists the names of each standing rigging on a cutter rigged sloop.
basilva1 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 9 Old 09-02-2011
Senior Member
 
AdamLein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SF Bay area
Posts: 1,936
Thanks: 6
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
First off, be careful, some of the traditionalists around here will cringe at the contradiction in terms

Traditionally, a "sloop" has a single mast fairly far forward in the sail plan. It may have a one or two stays before the mast. A cutter has a single mast about halfway back in the sail plan. It usually has two stays before the mast.

Nowadays, there's lots of ways that a boat with two stays before the mast could have them arranged. There's always one from some point on the mast to the stem, and technically this is the "forestay" regardless of any other arrangements. There could also be one to the end of a bowsprit, from the top of the mast, called a "headstay" or "jibstay", a "jib" being any sail flown forward of the forestay. The sail flown on the forestay is, of course, the forestaysail.

However, instead of flying jibs on a bowsprit, you could fly them from an inner forestay. Such a stay would attach down a bit from the mast and proportionally back a bit from the stem. But not two far down or two far back; then what you've got is not an inner forestay, but a baby stay, which is just for controlling mast bend and not for rigging sails.

Sometimes you see boats with two stays very close together. I think that in these cases the forward one is not really a stay but is just a furling system for a lightweight asymmetrical spinnaker or genoa that will be gybed on the outside. I've heard this called a Solent rig but I think that might not be quite accurate.

A modern sloop or cutter can have basically any combination of these things. If it's designed to fly one sail forward of the mast at a time, folks will call it a sloop; if two, then cutter.

Everything else, name-of-rigging-wise, is the same on the two types of boat, and the internet is awash with diagrams of the sort you're looking for.

s/v Laelia - 1978 Pearson 365 ketch
s/v Essorant - 1972 Catalina 27
AdamLein is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 9 Old 09-02-2011
Junior Member
 
aeventyr60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Andaman Sea
Posts: 2,627
Thanks: 28
Thanked 75 Times in 71 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Simple stuff really. Generally as follows, at least on my cutter rigged yacht.

Forestay
Inner forestay
Forward lowers
Aft Lowers
Cap shrouds
Running backstays
Back stay


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



"Your dreams minus your doubts equals your net worth"

Life is a short journey, filled with emptiness and pain. Get all the sailing and booty you can.
aeventyr60 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 9 Old 09-02-2011
Senior Member
 
RichH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,832
Thanks: 27
Thanked 195 Times in 184 Posts
Rep Power: 17
   
Proper terminology for any boat with two stays in front of the mast:

First or more forward of the 2 stays is the headstay
The stay that is directly in front of the mast is the forestay ... On a cutter rig you fly the forestaysail (staysail) on the forestay.

Many cutter rigs will also additionally have 'intermediate' shrouds, typically running from the base/chainplate of the aft lower shrouds and connecting to the mast to or 'just above' where the forestay connects.

All the other stays/shrouds are the same as a sloop
RichH is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 9 Old 09-03-2011
Junior Member
 
aeventyr60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Andaman Sea
Posts: 2,627
Thanks: 28
Thanked 75 Times in 71 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Headstay it is!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



"Your dreams minus your doubts equals your net worth"

Life is a short journey, filled with emptiness and pain. Get all the sailing and booty you can.
aeventyr60 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 9 Old 09-03-2011
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Little Rock
Posts: 20
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Question, are you saying in this case there's a third stay and the innermost stay is reffered to as the baby stay, used primarily for controlling the shape of the mast?
Just trying to be clear on this.



Stay Cool,

Michael
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cahow is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 9 Old 09-03-2011
Junior Member
 
aeventyr60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Andaman Sea
Posts: 2,627
Thanks: 28
Thanked 75 Times in 71 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Lots o semantics going on.....my running backs could also be regarded as intermediates as well....I'd defer to richh anyway...


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



"Your dreams minus your doubts equals your net worth"

Life is a short journey, filled with emptiness and pain. Get all the sailing and booty you can.
aeventyr60 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 9 Old 09-03-2011
Senior Member
 
RichH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,832
Thanks: 27
Thanked 195 Times in 184 Posts
Rep Power: 17
   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cahow View Post
Question, are you saying in this case there's a third stay and the innermost stay is reffered to as the baby stay, used primarily for controlling the shape of the mast?
Just trying to be clear on this.
A baby stay is used primarily for strengthening or dampening vibrations/oscilations of a mast ... and you certainly dont fly a sail on a baby stay. ;-)

BTW - Intermediate Stays are usually non-adjustable (adjustable with difficulty) when underway unlike running backstays. Also intermediate stays are typically very structurally inefficient because of the very shallow angle that which they intercept the mast (hounds). Runners, because they attach at a much larger base angle and much less shallow angle to the mast, are quite efficient --- its all in the 'trigonometry' but runners are much much better at the job intended than 'intermediates' ......... and are not an 'equivalent' to intermediates. :-)
RichH is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 9 Old 09-03-2011
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Little Rock
Posts: 20
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Sorry to auger this down guys but for my benefit please indulge.
I have a masthead sloop and have never sailed a cutter rig ar a rig with a baby stay and I get the need and application for the baby stay. Reading Rich's response, thanks Rich, the base of the baby stay would be close enough to the base of the mast as to not interfere with the the acion of any self-tending sails that may be on intermediate stays be they club footed or otherwise..... yes?
Also I appreciate that Rich differentiated that the baby stay is pretty much to aid in the structural integrity of the rig as opposed to the backstay that supports and is used to alter mainasil shape to improve performance. I also noted a post by Rich made on sailboatowners that expounds on this subject posted 12/8/08 that presents a clearer picture.
I took some harder looks at sailboats "for sale" listings to see if I could get a better understanding and found a C&C 36 with what looks like an adjustable baby stay who's control was lead back to the cockpit. I also noted some boats had side stays that anchored forward of the mast base and wondered if this was done to eliminate the baby stay on centerline much like Hunter has done on some models to eliminate the backstay.
Rich if I off base on this please correct me and thatnks everyone for your input.



Stay Cool,

Michael
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by cahow; 09-03-2011 at 03:10 PM.
cahow is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
amphitrite 43 Sloop Rigged? Kenif Wauquiez 8 08-26-2010 08:05 PM
Different types of Cutter rigged boats delecto Learning to Sail 5 10-04-2009 12:34 PM
turning a sloop rigged cutter into a cutter (different) aurielthirtyfour General Discussion (sailing related) 5 07-11-2007 09:33 AM
turning a sloop rigged cutter into a cutter (different) aurielthirtyfour General Discussion (sailing related) 3 07-10-2007 07:37 PM
For sale 25'' Margaret D Cutter Rigged Ketch tbrd154 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 5 03-15-2003 12:38 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome