Is the sailboat market really this bad?

[imagine2frolic]

Unfortunately it's not just the sailboat market. Just about everything is going cheap these days, because we're on hard times........i2f

[jameswilson29]

Originally Posted by Minnewaska

Not exactly sure I understand where the inventory for this auction comes from...

I would venture a guess that donors make charitable donations of boats to the Chesapeake Bay Maritime Museum to support its mission of preserving the history of the Chesapeake in return for a possible tax deduction.

[Minnewaska]

Originally Posted by jameswilson29

I would venture a guess that donors make charitable donations of boats to the Chesapeake Bay Maritime Museum to support its mission of preserving the history of the Chesapeake in return for a possible tax deduction.

Makes sense, in which case they have no reason to incur carrying costs that would just erode value over time. For that matter, boats degrade quickly when stored and unused. Buyers would definitely know that.

[kilby]

Originally Posted by SloopJonB

Therein lies the true story if you are selling a boat - as long as you use the funds for another boat you haven't really lost anything because the new one will be just as cheap (as long as you don't buy new).

It's just like buying & selling securities in a down market - if you keep your money in the market you don't lose anything except on paper. It's when you sell and put the money in something that hasn't crashed that you lose.

I've been a sailboat owner since the early 70's and I've never seen anything remotely like this market - if you ever wanted a boat, now is the time to get in - there's nowhere to go but up and the price of admission can't get any lower - people are PAYING to have their boats taken away.

The boat market is not going to come back for a long time if ever. The industry is concerned that young people are not getting into yachting, too much money, too much work, too expensive moorage. In Vancouver there are, it seems, thousands of neglected boats at all the marinas just slowly rotting, society, it seems is too busy. Spoke to someone who spent the Labour Day weekend at a popular marina at a nearby island, he is nearly 60 and commented that virtually all the yacht people were "old guys" meaning closer to 70. That generation is slowly getting off the water with no replacements in sight. I would not consider a boat if I had $2,500 per month mortgage payments like so many 30's and 40's have now.

[hellosailor]

Matt, you can't make any assumptions about market values from that sale.

Some auctions are well publicized, and reflect the public market. Others are not publicized, either because the folks in charge did a poor job, or because they were "insider" sales, intentionally kept quite so insiders could buy cheap.

I know nothing about that museum or that auction, just remarking on some of the many ways it could have nothing to do with market prices.

[jameswilson29]

I believe the museum publishes a quarterly magazine, has a website, and may send out mass e-mails to subscribers (I have intended to rejoin), so the auction is probably not that well advertised.

Nevertheless, the strong buyers' market is reflected on eBay, Craigslist, sailboatlistings.com and other web sites. Some boats are being given away for free or for very low prices. It seems as if marina owners are also having a tough time filling their slips.

From my perspective as a potential buyer for the last couple of years, it appears that the market is worsening as inventory increases - supply continues to increase faster than demand does. Prices inevitably drop as motivated sellers compete with each other for the scarce buyers and the better informed buyers realize they can be more selective and bargain harder on price and terms (ex., seller represents and warrants present condition, splits cost of haulout, etc.).

The recession also seems to have accelerated the impact of the internet in replacing traditional methods of selling boats by brokers, word of mouth, and classified ads. I would guess that fewer sellers and buyers recognize the value of the traditional boat broker, when sellers can get just as much or more exposure through other sources.

One other factor that may be influencing the market may be the lack of financing due the ageing of the inventory - boats built in the 70s may now be ineligible because they are more than 30 years old and their values are probably below minimum loan amounts plus the tightening of credit underwriting standards has made credit scarce.

[anthemj24]

Originally Posted by jameswilson29

I believe the museum publishes a quarterly magazine, has a website, and may send out mass e-mails to subscribers (I have intended to rejoin), so the auction is probably not that well advertised.

Nevertheless, the strong buyers' market is reflected on eBay, Craigslist, sailboatlistings.com and other web sites. Some boats are being given away for free or for very low prices. It seems as if marina owners are also having a tough time filling their slips.

From my perspective as a potential buyer for the last couple of years, it appears that the market is worsening as inventory increases - supply continues to increase faster than demand does. Prices inevitably drop as motivated sellers compete with each other for the scarce buyers and the better informed buyers realize they can be more selective and bargain harder on price and terms (ex., seller represents and warrants present condition, splits cost of haulout, etc.).

The recession also seems to have accelerated the impact of the internet in replacing traditional methods of selling boats by brokers, word of mouth, and classified ads. I would guess that fewer sellers and buyers recognize the value of the traditional boat broker, when sellers can get just as much or more exposure through other sources.

One other factor that may be influencing the market may be the lack of financing due the ageing of the inventory - boats built in the 70s may now be ineligible because they are more than 30 years old and their values are probably below minimum loan amounts plus the tightening of credit underwriting standards has made credit scarce.

Yep. The market for older boats is not going to recover until a whole bunch of them meet the chainsaw. When I am turning down people who are trying to give me J24s with trailers, the market is really bad. If you like old boats, you have to start looking at this market like manna from heaven. Go ahead and enjoy, but don't stock up or you will get yourself sick.

[PaulfromNWOnt]

Originally Posted by anthemj24

Yep. The market for older boats is not going to recover until a whole bunch of them meet the chainsaw. When I am turning down people who are trying to give me J24s with trailers, the market is really bad. If you like old boats, you have to start looking at this market like manna from heaven. Go ahead and enjoy, but don't stock up or you will get yourself sick.

Where do you live, and how much notice do you need for me to come pick one up.

[PaulfromNWOnt]

I'm more serious then not BTW. Depending on distance.

[anthemj24]

Originally Posted by PaulfromNWOnt

I'm more serious then not BTW. Depending on distance.

Paul, sent you a PM, but the two boats I have I am keeping. I turned down the two offers for free boats. If you look, they are out there though.