The last working sail

[junkrig]

Chinese junks were still working the harbors, coastlines, and rivers of China up into the middle to late 1970's.
Once again today, hand made sloops are working the coasts of Haiti, allowing people too poor to buy diesel fuel to carry freight to do so anyway.
Karsten Petersen took many beautiful photographs of working junks, and liveaboard sampans, in Hong Kong's harbors in the 1970's. take a look at them at index111ChineseJunks
Without engines, old and at the end of their life spans, they were still able to maneuver through their crowded anchorages and support a people.
I wonder if working sail will ever come back in these days of increasingly expensive fuel.

[PaulfromNWOnt]

It's a romantic notion, but I fear the rising fuel prices will only result in rising prices. It's still more cost effective to pay extra to have your produce arrive in a non-rotted condition.

[junkrig]

Originally Posted by PaulfromNWOnt

It's a romantic notion, but I fear the rising fuel prices will only result in rising prices. It's still more cost effective to pay extra to have your produce arrive in a non-rotted condition.

Hmmm. Most of my produce comes by semi trailer truck, you can't get a ship here from California.

I was mostly thinking about coastal traffic, inter-island traffic... like I said, they're already doing it in Haiti. But I grant you that we live in times when it is more likely to see total collapse than (heaven forbid!!!) trying an old solution.

[PaulfromNWOnt]

In that market, I can see it as a possibility, but that is a very limited market which will still be governed by the unwritten rules of commerce. For larger countries like ours, people will pay premiums to have their fresh mandarin oranges (or substitute item of choice).

In "The Islands", it does seem to make more sense only if the cost of labour to bring produce to market is lower than the cost of fuel.

[BubbleheadMd]

Dhows are still in use in the Persian Gulf. I saw them when I was stationed there. I suspect that for short-range trade by individuals or very small companies, that sail may be viable.

Are you going to see cargo ships that look like the Maltese Falcon, shuttling flat-screen TV's across the Atlantic? I doubt it.

[blt2ski]

There have been some small uses of kites ala kite boarder kites, if you will to help motovate some of the larger frieghters. Still not sure how much it will save in fuel, potential issues from the sail tangling etc. It has been looked into....

Marty

[junkrig]

Originally Posted by BubbleheadMd

Dhows are still in use in the Persian Gulf. I saw them when I was stationed there. I suspect that for short-range trade by individuals or very small companies, that sail may be viable.

Are you going to see cargo ships that look like the Maltese Falcon, shuttling flat-screen TV's across the Atlantic? I doubt it.

You're probably right. However, there are still boatloads of ore, steel, grain, coal, lumber, and other relatively low value cargoes traveling the world's oceans, with no hurried deadline.
In terms of sheer tonnage mandarin oranges are barely on the chart, and flat screen TV's may not even be that near the top although in truth I don't know.
Take a look at Windjammer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for some fun reading about the last working sail based in Europe, and hard as it is to believe, still working the world's oceans up through the first half of the twentieth century, only finally fading away in the 1950's. The same Wiki page even refers to some plans by people higher up the ladder than me publicly considering hybrid sail freighters for today's world.

[PaulfromNWOnt]

The hybrid idea sounds very workable as a way to reduce fuel costs without losing speed.

As to scheduling/timelines: Shipping companies get paid per load of bulk goods, therefore the more loads they carry the more they make. Again, if overall proffit will jump by carrying fewer trips over less fuel then sail will come back in a HUGE way.

[junkrig]

Originally Posted by PaulfromNWOnt

The hybrid idea sounds very workable as a way to reduce fuel costs without losing speed.

As to scheduling/timelines: Shipping companies get paid per load of bulk goods, therefore the more loads they carry the more they make. Again, if overall proffit will jump by carrying fewer trips over less fuel then sail will come back in a HUGE way.

And given that, as we all know, speed is a function of waterline length, if it is possible to make hybrid windjammwrs as long as today's freighters, the speed issue should vanish. I don't know if it is possible.
Of course, the other issue is that windjammers traveled the "clipper route," riding the swift trade winds around the southern ocean. Diesel freighters travel great circle routes, the shortest distance between two points on a sphere.
So aside from local traffic, there are more variables than my little mind can comprehend.

[PaulfromNWOnt]

Originally Posted by junkrig

And given that, as we all know, speed is a function of waterline length, if it is possible to make hybrid windjammwrs as long as today's freighters, the speed issue should vanish. I don't know if it is possible.

Which is why I find the hybrid idea so appealing. The shipping companies win by saving on fuel costs, while still meeting schedules if they encounter uncooperative or no wind.

I can see the practicality of blt2ski's kitesails as the simplest way of doing this without excessive mods to the vessel.

If fuel costs rise enough, it may just push this idea to the forefront.