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Legal advice needed

8K views 55 replies 36 participants last post by  TakeFive 
#1 ·
I towed my boat to Galesvelle , Md in March to have an engine refit done. Was told 6-8 weeks but vague about the price. Arranged for the new engine and propeller shaft to be delivered in early May.

The marina called me in mid-June and said the boat was completed. I drove 3 hours from home to find the boat in the water and the engine on the cabin floor. I called the marina and they said they were told by the mechanic the install was complete.

Two months later after many phone calls, e-mails and broken promises the mechanic said he was ready and I drove down again at the beginning of August only to find.....the engine on the floor.

Towards the end of August the marina calls me to tell me the mechanic drilled thru the transom to replace the exhaust (w/o my knowledge or consent) and wanted to put the boat back in the water w/o fairing or gelcoating the area.

I stopped all work on the boat and asked for bills-the mechanic had the wrong boat manufacturer on my bill as well as being well over the vague verbal estimate I received. He claims he sent me a corrected bill that I have never seen.

The mechanic has placed a lien on my boat and placed it up for auction.

Will lawyers cost me more than paying the inflated bill and lien fees? Can I recover my legal fees?

Thanks,
George

Lesson learned, get the estimate in writing.
 
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#29 ·
A good reason to document instead of state registering the boat... In some states (like CA) - a documented boat cannot be held by a mechanic or boat yard for payment disputes. Yes, they can go through the process of obtaining a Lien through the coast guard, but the documented vessel must be released to the owner.
In comparison, a state registered boat may be held hostage with very little effort....
 
#30 · (Edited)
A good reason to document instead of state registering the boat...
Sorry, most states require you to register the boat even if it's documented. You pay the taxes, register the boat, and get the paperwork. Even though you don't display the numbers on the bow, it's still registered.

You might mean "titling" instead of "registering." In most cases, documentation takes the place of titling.

As for the OP's dilemma and sketchy details of the situation, it sounds like the work was done but took much longer than he would have liked. Although I'm not a lawyer, I think he still has to pay for the work that was done unless he had a contract with a penalty clause for late completion of the work. It's a real shame that he lost a season of sailing, but it does not excuse him from paying. Unless he has a concrete argument that the charges were excessive for the work that was done, he should consider getting the promised sea trial, pay up, and start enjoying the boat.
 
#32 ·
I'd also advise speaking with a lawyer, as they are the only ones who will be able to provide true legal advice.

What I would do, if you are able to document everything you've said, is put up a full 'review' website of the mechanic.
Specify everything that occurred with him, and all actions taken.
As Minnewaska said, they don't want bad press.
I did it once with a company that tacked on a lot of extra charges and bills for things that had never been done. When I went in to discuss it with them I just had them do a google search for their company name, it turned out my 'review' was the third result down, complete with photos of the final results, and copies of the original estimates, the quote, and the final bill etc. They were not happy and corrected the (in their words) 'errors' that had been made in billing.
 
#34 ·
Update on the situation at hand.

On the advice of my lawyer in Pa I had a discussion and provided supporting documents to the Lien Company. There was enough documentation that I got written confirmation that they were suspending the auction until the dispute could be resolved.

I have e-mailed the mechanic asking for the corrected bill he had promised a month ago. No response.

The lien company tried calling the mechanic, no response as of 12 noon today.

I cannot comment on the corrected bill as I have not seen it. There were several problems other than the name of the boat on the initial bill. I do not know whether they were corrected but I have supporting documentation.

The mechanic probably will not be able to do the gelcoat work. I am waiting for the mechanic's bill before I schedule additional work at the marina. I cannot schedule new work until all previous bills are paid.

The original bill stated a sea trial would be done and any work needed after customers last sea trial. No sea trial has been scheduled or completed.

My request to the mechanic via e-mail to resolve this issue was very simple:
1) Submit the corrected bill for my review.

2) After accepting the bill I will arrange for the gelcoat to be completed (one week to complete).

3) Schedule a sea trial.

4) Receive payment after successful sea trial.

That seems imminently fair to me.

I realize I can't get back my sailing time and the time spent with friends on the boat. I am rather new to sailing and that time is valuable to me. How do you explain that to kids. With my tight schedule this fall it is unlikely I will sail this year.

I am also a little upset with myself because I had a decent mechanic who did good work at my marina. On the strong recommendation of the engine distributor and against friends advice; I towed the boat 25 miles to a new marina/mechanic to have the work done. Live and learn.

I will keep everyone updated. Thanks for your suggestions and support,

George
 
#36 ·
George

I have been following this thread with out much to add, with that said good luck with your situation. I hope all turns out as well as it can given the circumstances.

John
 
#37 ·
Update on the boat:

Sometimes I'm just stupid. I confirmed that the mechanic has received my e-mails by using the tools available in AOL.

The invoice number and date from the incorrect bill are the same invoice # and date as those submitted to the lien company. The only difference is that the mechanic changed the name of the boat and reduced the price on the invoice he sent to the lien company. His revised bill is much closer to his original estimate.

I am not sure that it is legal to back date a new or revised bill. The mechanic still has not sent me the revised bill though he has read me requests.

On a positive note; the lien company has been very nice about the whole issue. After submitting supporting documentation, they have gone out of their way to assure me my boat will not be sold. They actually went out of their way to highlight the duplication in the invoices that I did not know about; I was just focusing on dates.

George

George
 
#38 ·
If you decide to proceed without at least consulting with a good lawyer, then there are probably several good books on self taught brain surgery that you will want to look at next. Talk to several lawyers. But be specific on who you are looking for. A great divorce lawyer won't know (necessarily) any more than you do about maritime liens. (although if you don't get this fixed, you may need him as well).

In your state, lawyers may be "board certified" by the state bar in different areas. Look for one relating to admiralty law. You will learn a lot by just talking to someone, and most lawyers will not charge you for the initial meeting to sit down and see if they can help you. If you look, you will find one that is a lawyer and knows something about this area. You can usually google "state bar" and your state name, and when you get to the state bar website, you can put in your area, and marine or admiralty law, and find someone that can talk to you. The people you get initially may be way above your head, people who handle things like a rig sinking in the ocean, but they usually would not be admiralty lawyers unless they liked the sea, and they will often know of another, less big time lawyer that would be glad to help.

The time spend finding someone that actually knows what to do is well spent. Don't bluff by trying to write the letters yourself, and get someone fairly quickly, there may well be time limits in how quickly you must contest a claim against your vessel. These rules were written for commercial vessels like the Exxon New Jersey, and they are equally applicable to all of us.

Lawyers are like doctors, police, plumbers, etc. There are good ones and bad ones, honest ones and ones that are not. But you will know that as you talk to them. Just don't hire someone that will do your divorce, your will, your boat and your overseas currency trade all at the same time. You want someone that knows what to do in 5 minutes, not 5 hours.

Good luck. And I do practice law, but not this kind, and this is free advice. I am not your lawyer, and don't want to be, because it isn't my area. You are not my client (the ethical rules make us say that). But really, there are a lot of good people out there, and you are in over your head. This won't get better. Go find someone to help you. Call the local bar association for your city. The key you want is someone who does admiralty law, or sometimes called marine law.

Best.
 
#39 ·
George, i would suggest this is exactly why you want to get some professionals (lawyer, consumer affairs, attorney general, etc.) involved ASAP and also formally notify AOL security that there is a pending matter of criminal fraud to please retain all emails from the relevant parties and to expect subpeonas for them to follow, etc.

You have, formally or informally, effectively placed the lien company on notice that they are being made a party to a criminal fraud. They're not gonna come back and tell you that, but the last thing they want to do in that case is to sell the boat, because once they know there is a fraud involved, if they sell the boat THEY may be liable to criminal charges AS WELL AS "making you whole" with the replacement value of the boat.

And since there are different states involved, and the item at question is a motor vehicle worth over $5000 (presumably) it is possible that this also automatically gets bumped up to a federal matter with the FBI and USAG involved. So even if the mechanic and the lien company were in cahoots (more criminal charges) it could get bumped out of their comfort zone very quickly.

GET PROFESSIONAL HELP. Call the free ones, the "Consumer Affair" and "Attorney General" type offices. Send paper letters with receipts, and if you can legally tape phone calls, make those too, taking notes with times and names. You may not have to hire a lawyer, but if the free ones say to call a lawyer--INVEST the two hundred bucks, whatever it will cost.

"But really, there are a lot of good people out there, and you are in over your head. "
I'd say you've gotten impeccably good advice. From a lawyer!
 
#40 ·
Latest update:

I filed a consumer complaint with the Maryland Attorney General about the invoice numbers and dates matching and lien/auction process.

The auction was canceled by the lien company and I guess that had the mechanic looking for his money. I got a call from the marina manager Wednesday looking to 'fix' the problem. The marina has been very supportive throughout this process. I told him that as soon as I had a valid bill from the mechanic he could start the transom work.

I still did not have a bill by Friday afternoon and canceled further work on the boat. In a message copied to the lien company I explained that I would like to resolve the dispute but need a valid bill before proceeding.

Late Friday night I received the 'corrected' bill from the mechanic with the original date and invoice number. Hopefully I will be scheduling the sea trial for next week or beginning of November.

Trying not to get my hopes up to soon. I have been down this road before thinking my boat was ready; and now the season is truly over. There is always next year.

Thanks again for the support and advice,

george
 
#41 ·
...Late Friday night I received the 'corrected' bill from the mechanic with the original date and invoice number...
Did it have the reduced charge like the one sent to the lien company, or the same inflated charge of the original one he sent you?
 
#42 ·
Update on the Mechanics lien.

The two bills were identical except for the name of the boat and the amount charged; I accepted the lower price corrected bill with the proper boat model.

It was not so much about the money (10%) as the loss of an entire year of sailing; I was told 6-8 weeks in March.

On the sea trial Friday the boat hit hull speed at about 2800 rpm; no smoke and little vibration. The only problem was because the engine rotates the propeller in a different direction (I bought a new propeller) the existing shifter is backwards. Think reverse when you want to go forward? The mechanic has promised to fix this though I certainly think it should have been fixed already.

Everyone lost something on this installation.
1) I lost my boat for an entire year.
2) The other contractors at the marina lost my business because I was concerned about legal fees.
3) the mechanic will need to pay the lien company.
4) the mechanic may need to worry about the Maryland Attorney General.

There has to be a better way for major work to be done to protect both the owner and contractor. Next time I will insist on:

1) Get a quote in writing (not an estimate).
2) Weekly or bimonthly written (e-mail) communication on documented progress.
3) A performance penalty for milestones not being met unless reasonable reasons are documented in communications. (This is to make sure your work is a priority for the contractor).

Thanks for everyones advice
george
 
#43 ·
George, if you had any proof of the 6-8 weeks estimate the loss of use for the entire season would have a value in damages. Might not need the proof if someone were to ask "what's the normal time for this kind of work? Why did this take 4x? 6x? normal?"

On the engine running backwards...unless the transmission ratio is the same in forward and reverse, that might be a problem. Wrong ratios, wrong speeds, wrong loads...Please do look into that carefully before the expert turns around the shift lever.
 
#48 ·
...On the engine running backwards...unless the transmission ratio is the same in forward and reverse, that might be a problem. Wrong ratios, wrong speeds, wrong loads...Please do look into that carefully before the expert turns around the shift lever.
I've never even owned an inboard, but this is the first thing I thought of when OP mentioned the engine rotating the opposite direction. IMO, the mechanic should have pointed this out to you before selling you the motor, or even the prop. Something really sounds off with this guy.
 
#44 ·
gbm4th

IMHO dont let the mech touch your boat ever again not even to "fix" the shifter ..
consider yourself lucky you have your boat back & the eng even runs.

I have been a pro eng man most my life and any mech that would put you through what you have been through allready...isnt a eng man peroid.....letting him touch anything at this point is just asking for it .

believe it or not I have seen ppl make a lifetime out of being a mech , that I wouldnt let change my oil !! sorry state of affairs I could tell you HORROR stories about it ...

Good luck in future
 
#45 ·
I would love to see liquidating damages in a marine contract, but will be shocked if anyone ever does. The problem is that ALL vendors in the supply chain are as likely to cause delays, ie hauling, parts, engine mech, hull mech. Not to mention that mother nature can delay much of this, or for that matter, delay the job right before you, which delays yours.

Given all these factors, I find the marine industry takes on a laid back, go with the flow attitude and expects their customers to understand. Drives me nuts.
 
#46 ·
"believe it or not I have seen ppl make a lifetime out of being a mech , that I wouldnt let change my oil !!"

Kinda reminds me of the commercial the US Army ran some years ago, a young guy with a heavy "moutain south" accent standing in front of the camera saying "Heyck, when I wuz in high schul I culdn't even change the earl in ma car, now the army done gone taught me to service this Apache helo copter!"

And I'm saying it myself...OK, do I really want to fly in that helicopter, if the mechanic couldn't figure out how to do an oil change without formal training....No wonder Mr. Rogers preferred to walk in his neighborhood.

Maybe someone had a problem and is clean and sober now. Congratulations, but not something I want to get knee-deep with when I'm hiring help!
 
#47 · (Edited)
GREETINGS EARTHLING, I do not know US law but if the Mec has the wrong boat manufature down and the work is not up to standard I think yo need a yacht survayer to confirm that you are right to reject the work as not up to standard (legal term in UK.)ask other boaters in the area have they had any dealings with said mec and form a user groupe Go SAFE
 
#49 ·
Well, at the very least, I'm glad to see that you've actually made progress with this clown. The sea trial thing was criminal, in my mind. As far as the lien goes, at least in Oregon, a lawsuit must be filed in order to foreclose on a lien.

Lien companies are hacks, and should be treated as such. Pursue the claim through the AG's office, and anybody else that can cause pain for this clown.

Sorry you lost your season.
 
#56 ·
If you read the whole thread, you'll see that there may not be anything for the OP to sue for. The mechanic billed him for work he did. The OP's main complaint is over the excessive time causing him to lose the whole sailing season. But since there was not a contract stipulating deadlines and penalties for missing them, it is highly doubtful any court would award monetary damages for that.
 
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