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  #21  
Old 10-16-2011
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I would suggest since the boat is currently on Barnegat Bay sailing up the Delaware to keep the boat on the Delaware River is probably not a realistic option for your first season.

Keep the boat on Barnegat Bay for your first season, plenty of places to explore, and reliable winds. Next season plan a trip down the ICW to Cape May then out the canal to the lower bay, stay for a few week at Bayway on Bidwell Creek with daysails in the lower bay. After two season you should have more confidence to expand your horizons.
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  #22  
Old 10-16-2011
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Our mooring field on the Narrow part of the river west side of Burlington Island.

Burlington Bristol Bridge way down the far end.


Turnpike Bridge to the North;
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Last edited by deniseO30; 10-16-2011 at 01:37 PM.
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  #23  
Old 10-17-2011
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Denise,
I was at the Camden Waterfront today and watched a 30-33' sailboat pass by at one heck of a clip (not as fast as the big freighter behind it!) and thought of you. It looks like it would be a neat place to sail.

To eveyrone who has chimed in, thank you VERY much for the input! I've decided to leave the decision up to my wife. She had reservations about getting the boat in the first place (how much we'll use it, not "over-using" it, etc.), so I told her that the decision where to keep it is up to her. I'm happy we have the boat, and she can be the arbiter of whether we use the boat enough to justify the cost of wherever we decide to keep her. I'll be passing along your information (as well as the info from those who E-mailed me) so she can make an informed decision.

As of right now, I think we're basically looking at (in no particular order):

1) Dillon's Creek Marina in Toms River (Marina in Barnegat Bay, Ocean County, NJ, by Toms River, Slip Rentals and Marine Repairs)
2) Mariner's Marina in Barnegat (Mariner's Marina-Home)
3) All Seasons Marina in Marmora (All Seasons Marina - New and Used Boats For Sale - Ocean City, New Jersey)
4) One of the other marinas mentioned above (I can't see them as I type!) in Ocean City, especially the one at 7th and Pleasure
5) Anchorage Marina in Essington (Anchorage Marina on the Delaware River, Boat Slip Rentals)
6) Delaware River Yacht Club (Visit the Delaware River Yacht Club)
7) Winters Sailing Center (WINTERSSAILING.COM)

Although realistically, as Ulladh pointed out, the logistics of getting her from Toms River to the Delaware River may keep us from going to any of #'s 5-7 in the 2012 season unless I can find a trailer some time this winter or early in the spring.
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  #24  
Old 10-17-2011
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If you wanted to move the boat next year, one other option would be to hire a professional skipper to assist you (or even to move it for you) with the ocean passage/lower Bay parts of the trip. It might be less costly than buying a trailer.
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  #25  
Old 10-17-2011
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jimgo
Attempted to respond to your pm, but system shuts down when I try to send?

Bayway has very few facilities for sailboats, and bathrooms are not cleaned very often. Closest restaurant is 4 miles away in Goshen.

Not the place for hanging out dockside, though the mostly power boat crowd was very friendly and helpful. If the kids like to fish or crab, stop in at the tackle shop "Big John" will be very helpful.

But the reasons I will be returning next summer;

Easy access to the lower bay at any tide.

Lower bay east of Lower Township water tower and Egg Island Point is relatively protected, square waves and chop is less than further west and did I mention before wind direction stays constant for extended periods of time.

Easy access to the lower bay without having to time my exit out the Cape May Canal with tide and current


Reeds Beach at the Bidwell Creek entrance jetty is its own little paradise. This is the typical chop on the lower bay about 1 to 2 ft disorganized.
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Last edited by Ulladh; 10-17-2011 at 05:21 PM.
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  #26  
Old 10-17-2011
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Ulladh,
I think I'm leaning more and more toward keeping our boat in Ocean City, with an excursion over to Bay Way in 2013, once we're more comfortable with the boat and competent as sailers.

That chop doesn't look that bad; it was like that on Barnegat Bay when I was out single handing a few weeks ago. I had a feeling that the northeastern section of the Delaware Bay (up near Bidwell Creek) would be drastically different from the southern bay. Obviously, we'll need to pace ourselves and we're not really ready to move her to Bay Way this season, but if the bugs aren't to bad (I've heard some tough stories!), that would seem almost a perfect compromise place for us. Decently deep water, a nice large, somewhat protected area in which to play, close to "our" condo, and with the ability to do trips to the Chessepeake if we felt ambitious.

Of course, as I said above, the final decision will be my wife's. But one reason we've been together so long is that she knows I'm anal and research the heck out of decisions, so my recommendations tend to have some sway (though not always!).

As someone said above, it's nice to have options! Barnegat Bay and the Delaware are also good options. I'll let y'all know what she decides. I think we'll be going on a marina tour in the next few weeks, or in the early spring.
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  #27  
Old 10-18-2011
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Jim - As I mentioned before, I think Barnegat Bay would be a really cool place to sail, especially with a swing keel to get you out of the skinny water.

Make sure to check out this thread before heading out into the ocean:

Boat Sinks off Barnegat Inlet

If you grow frustrated with the drive and the beach traffic, it would be very easy to have your boat trailered to whatever destination you choose. There are professional boat movers with trailers with hydraulically adjustable pads that could move your boat. Your boat is in a size range where this would be very easy and perhaps less expensive than you realize. I believe my boat was trucked to Massachusetts and back by two different previous owners.

Keep this in mind as a backup - you don't have to risk your life going though Barnegat Inlet.
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  #28  
Old 10-18-2011
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Delaware Bay bugs, in particular the biting greenheads are just a fact of life on the bay, get used to them, or find a product that work for you. I use Badger sunscreen with citronella, it does not stop them getting close but keeps them from lingering. Another solution is to bring a guest that tastes better then you.

The flying insects are one of the reasons, in addition to the horseshoe crab, the lower bay is so rich in bird life and is a refuel stop for so many exotic species traveling from South America to Canada and the birds of pray that dine on them.
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  #29  
Old 10-18-2011
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Jimgo,

I would get some charts to determine the amount of depth and sailing room behind Ocean City. Having lived there for 18 years I found that you would be tacking every 15 minutes with tons of speeding powerboats, jet skis and wakes galore. It why I lived there and kept my boat in Barnegat Bay...no sailing room.

IMHO having sailed the Delaware Bay frequently and going there every year on our way to New england from the Chesapeake, I find it to be one of the most inhospitable pieces of water to sail in. With all due respect to compare its chop to Barnegat Bay is unrealistic and just plain false. Those who have frequented the Delaware Bay square waves which are prevalent anywhere south of the opening at Egg Island Light where the Delaware River widens and becomes the Bay, know the notorius bad weather and rough sailing conditions it presents. Shallow water plus wind against tides makes for nasty conditions frequently When the tide reverses and ebbs it runs smack into the prevailing summer winds from the South and Southeast and produces chop...3-4 ft in nature with a short interval, on a good day. The "fetch" for this to build up is quite large and is at least 5-15 miles leaving a boat stopping uncomfortable ride. Barnegat on the otherhand has the same predictable S- Southeast prevailing winds Ocean City and Delaware bay has without the long fetch foer wave action making it ideal for sailing. Back in the 80s some of the Americas Cup sailors actually trained there as the winds were large and predictable with almost smooth water.

In additon if you reconointer the area of Bidwell Creek eaither in person or on a nautical chart like navionics you will see the surrounding areas for 10 miles all the way up the western coast of South Jersey from Cape May to Hopewell consists of a salt marsh. It harbors the nasty Greenhead flies ( NJ State Bird) , hordes of swarmin mosquitos, especially at dawn and dusk, and bugs of all of natures varieties. They are more than annoying and have on numerous occasions have caused us to go for long clothes while transiting the area to stop from being bit. Avon Skin so soft the best way to deter them, only lasts so long. One time we arrived in Cape May with no less than 200 dead greenehads smashed on our cockpit as my wife and I had a contest the way dowen the river who would kill more. Our good friends the Utches ( Utches Marina in Cape May laughed when we pulled to the dock with fly guts covering out cockpit.

I lived in Ocean City, NJ for 18 years, have many friends there still and visit freuently and consider myself a Jersy Boy, but no way is this a place to entice your wife in the fun sailing will be. Go for a more pleasureable experience. I say this with all due respect to Udallh as I undertsand this is your cruising grounds, but there is no way to compare this to Barnegat Bay with the cool seabreeze...the nice marinas, the anchorages, nice restaurants, and beach areas close by.
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  #30  
Old 10-18-2011
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Chef2Sail, thanks for the feedback! Delaware Bay is really a "daydream" at this point. It's not a serious consideration for the 2012 season, though I'll certainly be going over to check out the bay near Bay Way and perhaps befriend a few of the sailboat owners (and Ulladh!) since it is close to my in-law's. It can't hurt to do a little research, but its not in the cards for the 2012 season, and with all the negatives I would certainly want some first-hand knowledge before I invested the time and energy to move the boat that far (whether by land or water).

My parents had power boats when I was a kid, and kept 'em in Ocean City. One reason they got out of boating is that the whole area was just getting nuts, and that was 15 years ago. I would imagine that it hasn't gotten any better. But when I was in Barnegat Bay, what struck me was the sheer number of boats that were around. You have boats all over the place there - probably at least as many as you find in Ocean City on a per-square-mile of bayfront basis, and possibly more since large swaths of Great Egg Harbor are uninhabited/uninhabitable salt marsh. My fear is that in the end, Barnegat Bay will be just as crazy as (or even craizier than) Great Egg Harbor, the traffic will be worse, and we're going to have to go (at least) an extra hour each way to get there. Yeah, Great Egg is small by comparison - I understand that. Realistically, with my kids being 6 and 4 next season, I'm gonna probably only get 2-3 hours of sailing at a stretch if they are with me (and hopefully they will enjoy it enough that they'll want to be with me a lot). I don't know that I need a two-day sail's worth of protected water if I'm only ever going to go for comparitively short sails. And, again, I can get there a lot easier.

Please don't think I'm being argumentative, or that I truly have my mind made up. I REALLY appreciate the feedback, and the ability to talk through the various options. I want next season to be enjoyable for my family, and finding the solution that hits the 'sweet spot' for us is the real challenge. So far, I think Ocean City may be that sweet spot, although the city of Barnegat, and specifically Mariner's Marina, look interesting. As much as I like Dillon's Creek - the owner and slipholders have all been fantastic - I'm just not 100% sure it's the best place for us.

So, with all of that (and the comments from those here and other places), here's my pro/con list. What have I missed?

Delaware River:
Pro: Close to home and fairly easy to get to, even mid-week; Long stretches of open water; Marinas and clubs are inexpensive compared to the shore; Not overly crowded with power boaters; Lots of neat things to see along the way (including airports, seaplanes, seaports, barges, tankers, Philadelphia and Camden, etc.).

Con: Narrow; Less control over sail plan due to tidal surges, current; increased likelihood of debris to potentially damage boat; barges, tankers, and other commercial vessels to watch out for; boat too far from the beach to make sailing practical when we're there (and we hope to be there a fair bit this summer); "interesting" experience along the way (drug deals, dead bodies in Camden (yes, this one is a joke); loud noise from Boeing plant, airport).

Ocean City:
Pro: Close; Some very nice marinas (albeit on the expensive side) and some mediocre marinas that are at reasonable prices; Access to familiar beaches and attractions; Family (both sides) and friends regularly live and/or visits that area.

Con: Shallow; Limited sailing area and no real ability to "run" the boat; Lots of crazy power boaters.

Barnegat:
Pro: South end of the "usable" portion of Barnegat Bay, so lots of "open" protected water; Mariner's Marina is not outrageously priced; marina that specializes in sailboats with plenty of deep water access (especially good for when we move up! .

Con: Roughly doubles the drive to/from Avalon compared to Ocean City (turns the trip into at least a 2 hour experience, instead of a "quick" trip); no family/friends in the immediate area; Mariner's Marina looks to be a decent marina, but it isn't exactly scenic.

Toms River:
Pro: Whole area is beautiful; Dillons Creek Marina is in an fantastic location, well maintained, and over all seems very clean and family-friendly; Marina owner is a sailer, and caters toward sailboats; friendly and helpful staff.

Con: farthest away at almost an hour and a half each way; marina is fairly expensive (get what you pay for).

I do know that there are other marinas in Barnegat, but all the ones I've seen that take sailboats are basically on par with Mariner's and I may as well wind up at a marina that favors sailboats. Similarly, I know there are other marinas in Toms River, but if I'm going to go the extra distance, I may as well be in a nice marina, otherwise I may as well be at Mariner's since it's cheaper and closer.
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