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  #41  
Old 10-21-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulladh View Post
+1 RhythmDoc - While it is a bit cumbersome compared to the more modern alternatives, you really can't beat the USCG Local Notice to Mariners published here for this area. It is the official word - everything else
only complements it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
No intercoastal from AC to OC as there is a fixed bridge in Longport.
Not that I've gone that way, Chef, but the ICW detours around the Longport bridge. Chart 12316 They probably did that in the late '80's when they replaced the bridge on Somers Point - Longport Boulevard.
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  #42  
Old 10-21-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimgo View Post
Barnegat:
Pro: South end of the "usable" portion of Barnegat Bay, so lots of "open" protected water; Mariner's Marina is not outrageously priced; marina that specializes in sailboats with plenty of deep water access (especially good for when we move up! .

Con: Roughly doubles the drive to/from Avalon compared to Ocean City (turns the trip into at least a 2 hour experience, instead of a "quick" trip); no family/friends in the immediate area; Mariner's Marina looks to be a decent marina, but it isn't exactly scenic.

Toms River:
Pro: Whole area is beautiful; Dillons Creek Marina is in an fantastic location, well maintained, and over all seems very clean and family-friendly; Marina owner is a sailer, and caters toward sailboats; friendly and helpful staff.

Con: farthest away at almost an hour and a half each way; marina is fairly expensive (get what you pay for).

I do know that there are other marinas in Barnegat, but all the ones I've seen that take sailboats are basically on par with Mariner's and I may as well wind up at a marina that favors sailboats. Similarly, I know there are other marinas in Toms River, but if I'm going to go the extra distance, I may as well be in a nice marina, otherwise I may as well be at Mariner's since it's cheaper and closer.
Jim,
I try not to push too hard toward one place or another. Everyone has to make their own decisions and different things are important to different people.

But here are a couple of more things to think about (like you need more to think about ):

Your boat is a 1984 (27 years old) and this is your first year with her. Figure there will be unexpected boat projects that will crop up and odd ball parts that you'll need. Make sure there is a good marine store nearby your marina. There's nothing worse than an hour round trip for a $2 part (remember shore traffic). On LBI Morrison's is first rate, near Mariner's it's The Boat Shop on Bay ave in Manahawkin. On Forked River it's Bob's Square Deal or Silver Cloud. Up on Tom's River you're near the West Marine super store in Brick.

You mentioned Mariner's. There are some pros and cons. We were there one season and moved up to Forked River. On the plus side Richie and his family are really nice people and Rich is a solid mechanic. I've heard only good reviews of his work. There's a group of sailors who've been there for a long time who are really friendly.

On the down side the marina was VERY buggy when we were there. Rich has a business building barges as well as running the marina, and it felt like that was his priority and you won't want to be in the marina during the week with the noise. A 25' boat will probably be on the outside. The boat wakes out there are just awful, and where the marina is situated the wind can really howl across the slips. Docking can be interesting until you get the hang of docking in a crosswind (not a recipe for marital bliss). Finally there's nothing that's walking distance from the marina and your restaurant choices are limited - unless you drive up to Forked River.

We moved 15 minutes up the bay to Forked River and are really glad we did. We're at Southwinds (protected, no bugs), recently remodeled rest rooms and walking distance to the restaurant at Southwinds or the Captains Inn.

Less expensive options would be Rick's, Tall Oaks, the State Marina or a slip at the Inn at River's Edge B&B.

Tall Oaks has the advantage of access to the pool at Silver Cloud next door (same owners). Lots of additional restaurants on rt 9, a WaWa, ice cream shop, Shop Rite, etc. Boat parts are never more than 10 minutes away.

The problem if you go south onto Little Egg Bay is you'll want to be on the mainland side for easier access by car (compared to LBI traffic); but the greenheads are murder through that area.

Hope this helps,
Jim
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  #43  
Old 10-21-2011
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Dealt with the owner of Silver Cloud...excellent service and top notch repair me. Fair also

Udallah, you are right about there neing a very very tight intercoatal behind longport and all the way down to Cape May, but some of the area are only enough room for one boat to pass, it is extremely shoaled, not maintained or dredged, and not well marked in sections. We used to sail in my hobie cat when I lived in Ocean City, NJ all the way down to Cape May Harbor. Its ok with a boat which draws 6" and the rudders pop up when they hit something. It winds through the salt marshes and on a wind where there is a western or northern component, the water empties out of the bay and gets very very shallow.

If you go this way this get unlimited towing and an extra battery for your hand held VHF. The intercoatal behind LBI and north of Toms River and down to Forked River look like a 6 lane super hiway compared to the stretch from Atlantic City to Cape May

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  #44  
Old 10-22-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Dealt with the owner of Silver Cloud...excellent service and top notch repair me. Fair also
+1, I've had good experiences with Dave at Silver Cloud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
If you go this way get unlimited towing and an extra battery for your hand held VHF. The intercoatal behind LBI and north of Toms River and down to Forked River look like a 6 lane super hiway compared to the stretch from Atlantic City to Cape May

Dave
Actually I'd recommend unlimited towing for sailing anywhere on Barnegat Bay or Little Egg.

Jim
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  #45  
Old 10-22-2011
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Thanks everyone for continuing to provide feedback. Jim, more info isn't a bad thing. As we get progressively farther from Avalon, I think I'm more inclined to go toward a "nicer" marina. I can tolerate a lot if I'm only 20-30 minutes from the boat/"home". But when it's an hour or more in each direction, I think I'd rather have a place that's a little more serene, and has more for my family to do in case we get to the marina and decide that the weather just isn't really conducive for sailing. We may still putter around on the motor, but it won't be a full-fledged sail. Dillon's Creek is great, from that perspective. They have a pool, the changing facilities are fantastic, and they have a small shop on site. As you mentioned, West Marine is just a stone's throw away, too. The food options close by are non-existant - you have to drive to get anywhere/anything. that's not a deal breaker for me, but it's still a bit of a negative.

It sounds like Mariner's probably won't wind up being the kind of marina I'd hoped to find. I'll have to look at adding some of the others discussed here to our "to-visit" list. The advantage that I see in getting out of the Toms River/Island Heights area is that I don't have to contend with the folks traveling out to the barrier islands when I'm trying to get to the boat. I imagine that the traffic is at least marginally better going to Forked River, rather than Toms River, for example, and even though it is a little farther away (using main roads) from my house, it may wind up being a shorter drive. Plus it would put me closer to Avalon, which is good. Again, thanks for the input!

Bermuda, I'll have to look into that, too! So far, the one at 7th and Pleasure sounds very interesting for O.C., but it's good to know about the public marina. I'll have to find out what their minimum depth is.

Please keep the suggestions, comments, etc., coming!
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  #46  
Old 07-02-2012
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Re: Philadelphia Area Sailing for a Novice on a 25' SK

I was hoping to resurrect this thread because I'm in quite a similar position.

I live in Philadelphia and from reading on here I've been getting swayed to the advantages of keeping a boat closer to home (less driving, more sailing, even if less pretty). For that reason, I'm thinking of getting a first boat (probably less than 25 feet) and getting a slip at Winters/Riverside or somewhere near Essignton.

What did the OP end up doing for this season?

Also, any comments on a Catalina 250 from the early 2000s for the Delaware River would be much appreciated.

I've taken the ASA 101 course and chartered several more times. I think the best thing for me is practice practice practice - then re-evaluate in a couple years and possibly move on to a bigger boat and maybe a different location.

Opinions please!!

Thanks in advance.
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  #47  
Old 07-02-2012
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Re: Philadelphia Area Sailing for a Novice on a 25' SK

We wound up getting a slip in Somers Point. For us, that's the closest large-ish body of protected water to where we'll spend our time at the shore. If I didn't expect to be farther south, upon further review, Great Bay (near Atlantic City) is really almost the ideal place to be. Easy access from the AC Expressway, reasonably sized body of protected water, excellent depth (4-5' across most of it, which is great compared to the 0-2' in Great Egg Bay), easy access to the ICW, and an inlet that is well maintained for if/when you're ready to venture into the ocean. It would add about 30 minutes to my drive when we're at my in-laws (making it an hour drive), so I think it's still likely to be out of the question at this time.

As to the Somers Point/Ocean City area, so far, we've been out about 5 times this summer. It's a bit of a pain, because we're in the Western part of the bay and it's shallow back there, so we have to time our sails around the tides rather than just being able to hop aboard and go. But, realistically, it isn't that bad - we just HAVE to watch the clock or we risk running aground. On a positive note, we were out two weekends ago and, had we not decided to cross under the Parkway bridge, we'd probably only have seen 20 boats or so during our entire 2 hour ride. Once we crossed to the other side of the bay, activity increased significantly, but the back part of the bay is pretty quiet, and at high tide plus or minus about 2 hours, there's enough water for us with our less-than-3' draft (with the keel up). NOAA has a great site for judging tidal flows: Beesleys Point*8534975*Tidal Data Daily View

Not that I want to divert traffic from SailNet, but your question about the C250 should also be asked over at Catalina - Capri - 25s International Association. There are a few active members there who keep their Catalinas on the Delaware. Of course, I guess my answer sort of inherently answers your question - the fact that several people are sailing C25's and C250's over there suggests that those boats are fine for that area (at least it would suggest that to me).

Hope this helps!
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  #48  
Old 07-02-2012
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Re: Philadelphia Area Sailing for a Novice on a 25' SK

jboat
The advantage for me being at Essington is convienience, the disadvantage is a strong tidal current and gusty winds.

Essington behind Little Tinicum Island is a fairly safe place to practice sailing without the typical commercial traffic on the river, and good for short afternoon sails. About 4nm x .75nm with about 20ft depth, open at the up river end to wider waters at PHL and at the down river end to Darby Creek and wider waters to the Commodore Barry.

A good 35ft minimum depth waters 5nm x 1.5nm outside the shipping channel from Darby Creek to the Commodore Barry usually with some breeze.

Have a look at Anchorage Marina or Fox Grove Marina
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  #49  
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Re: Philadelphia Area Sailing for a Novice on a 25' SK

Thank you both.

Essington is sounding like a good spot.

Any thoughts on the area up by Winter's Sailing Center?

Also, any thoughts on whether a Catalina 250 would be a good starter boat for this area? It seems to me that there is a market for them - so if a couple seasons down the road I want to change, I'll have a decent chance of recovering some of what I spent (either through a trade-in or outright sale). I repeatedly see that they are good starter boats, stable and good for families (all important things to me).

Lastly, I realize that my name on here may cause confusion - given that I now realize there's a brand of boat called jboat! I just innocently took an initial from my name and added 'boat'.
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  #50  
Old 07-02-2012
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Re: Philadelphia Area Sailing for a Novice on a 25' SK

Jboat . you never went back to read the other thread you started.

my reply;
Re: First boat for Delaware River
I'd stay 25ft or larger for the river. Your spouse and kids will need more room then you think. If money is an issue, consider joining one of the many Yacht clubs even though only a few have sailboat members in addition to the power boats. Philly marine center doesn't have lift or storage.. the closest for that would be Neshaminy state Marina in Croydon pa. allot of boats for sale there too.

Also, if your interested in racing, there is East Enders YC. a racing only club that saild from my club every Tuesday evening.
this is the link to ALL the YCs on the River. http://dryl.org/

Philly has liberty sailing club. Liberty Sailing Club - Penn's Landing - Philadelphia, PA

Essington is a good choice for clubs and marinas, NJ has winters sailing center in riverside, Speak to Don he can find you a boat if you wish to use a broker. He can find you top of the line as well as fixer uppers.

Ships, and barges although big and scary are way more predictable then the big sport fishing power boats that ply the river.

My club has mostly 30ft and larger but there are a couple of Pearson 26, and catalina 25, and a endeavor 32 is the only one for sale that I know of. .I know of a pearson 30 racing boat that may or may not be for sale.. I could ask.

I personally feel it's a mistake to buy a smaller boat for "learning" that's money that can go towards the boat you really want. I also feel larger boats are easier to learn on. Smaller boats will get you in touch with the water quite well... if you know what I mean. Your wife may not like that either. Your more then welcome to come visit my club and talk with the avid racers.

We say around here. "if you can sail the River you can sail anywhere, and this time of the year is bad. just like on the Chessy.. we are in the doldrums until late Sept give or take a few weeks.
There is sailing to be had on the River. and below Philly it's big water and still big up my way but not as intimidating as the Philly water front. watch out for ducs anchored in the channel with women and children screaming for the barge to stop! (recent tragedy)
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