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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > General Discussion (sailing related)
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  #11  
Old 10-26-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orthomartin View Post
CQR: Ave drag 42', set 10% (19 of the 180. Almost all on their sides)
Delta drag 21", set 21% (101/128)
Bruce drag 22' set 22% (82/92)
Rocna drag 8' set 92% (59/64)
Spade drag 6' set 98% (59/60)
Mason drag 8' set 96% (49/51)

....
It seems very interesting but it seems that I am the only one that does not understand completely your information. Can you explain it to me?

when you say Ave drag 42' and Ave drag 8' what do you mean? That they drag for 42', that they take 42' before starting to drag? I don't understand what you want to mean in either of the cases.

Regarding set, it is clear to me but it seems that a very relevant peace of information is missing: The percentage of anchors from each type that you have saw dragging.

Regards

Paulo
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  #12  
Old 10-26-2011
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With all due respect, while I find this interesting, I don't know how it can be taken seriously and the OP doesn't seem to be trying to call it scientific anyway.

I assume the average drag was a witnessed burrow in the bottom that leads up to the set anchor. How it was witnessed, measured, or estimated is suspect, as water distorts visual distances by 25%.

I can't help but wonder how one identifies a set manson from a set rocna in sand. They would typically be buried beyond recognition. Not even sure you could tell a spade from a delta if both were actually set. Maybe they were witnessed going up or down the bow roller.

It sure does seem like a bad hobby.
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  #13  
Old 10-26-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orthomartin View Post

CQR: Ave drag 42', set 10% (19 of the 180. Almost all on their sides)
Delta drag 21", set 21% (101/128)
Bruce drag 22' set 22% (82/92)
Rocna drag 8' set 92% (59/64)
Spade drag 6' set 98% (59/60)
Mason drag 8' set 96% (49/51)

...

For the record, after the first year I gave my CQR away and bought a Spade but to each his own. I hope this info is helpful. It was fun collecting!
Just wondering, since you had the CQR for at least a year and it seems to have terrible statistics, did you often find your anchor not securely set? Did you find it difficult to set? And then when you changed to a Spade did the process become noticeably better for you?
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  #14  
Old 10-26-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
With all due respect, while I find this interesting, I don't know how it can be taken seriously and the OP doesn't seem to be trying to call it scientific anyway.

I assume the average drag was a witnessed burrow in the bottom that leads up to the set anchor. How it was witnessed, measured, or estimated is suspect, as water distorts visual distances by 25%.

I can't help but wonder how one identifies a set manson from a set rocna in sand. They would typically be buried beyond recognition. Not even sure you could tell a spade from a delta if both were actually set. Maybe they were witnessed going up or down the bow roller.

It sure does seem like a bad hobby.
In hard sand anchors rarely bury below the surface. They wont do that on engine power alone. The difference MS and Rocna are reasonably easy to pick because of the slot in the top of the MS anchor shank. The Spade has a distinctive shape and is hollow in all but the smallest models.

The estimates of drag distance are not going to be perfectly accurate, but diving there is an enormous apparent difference between the new generation anchors which nearly always set in very short distance and say a CQR which rarely sets in less than a boat length (if it sets at all) in hard sand.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinghycapn View Post
Just wondering, since you had the CQR for at least a year and it seems to have terrible statistics, did you often find your anchor not securely set? Did you find it difficult to set? And then when you changed to a Spade did the process become noticeably better for you?
My experience with a plough (CQR copy) and Rocna, may be helpful. I very rarely achieved other than a very marginal set with the plough in hard sand or weed (the most common anchorages here). The anchor was oversized for our boat. It never dragged in less than 35K, but also never held above 45K (this is mean wind the gusts would be at least 10K higher. This means we would expect 4 to 5 dragging incidents a year.
It often required several tries before it would hold 1/2 cruising revs in reverse.

The plough was replaced by a Rocna 1 size bigger than the plough (so 2 sizes larger than recommended). It has not dragged in 3 years. It is very rare it does not set first time and usually there is a reason (last time was couple on months ago and it landed on a tree !). We now apply full reverse for 30 seconds so the criteria is tougher.
Its very rare I would not define the anchor appearance when diving as very well set.
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Old 10-26-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
With all due respect, while I find this interesting, I don't know how it can be taken seriously and the OP doesn't seem to be trying to call it scientific anyway.
Nope, nothing scientific, just observations taken over a period of time and presented here with no results claimed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
I assume the average drag was a witnessed burrow in the bottom that leads up to the set anchor. How it was witnessed, measured, or estimated is suspect, as water distorts visual distances by 25%.
Great! Just adjust each number equally by 25% and go from there. It really isn't that big a deal since the curve would remain the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
I can't help but wonder how one identifies a set manson from a set rocna in sand. They would typically be buried beyond recognition. Not even sure you could tell a spade from a delta if both were actually set. Maybe they were witnessed going up or down the bow roller.
He's CrUiSiNg... They are typically friendly people aren't they? Perhaps... wait for it.... He AsKeD??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
It sure does seem like a bad hobby.
But it's his hobby. Perhaps you might like something different.


I personally like the initial post, and am happy to have the extra information.
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Old 10-26-2011
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Thanks very much for sharing your observations. I think more observing, and less snickering about other people observing, would overall be an improvement.

However I too am curious about how you got the drag measurement. Is it purely from diving and looking at the furrow?

Another thing: I had initially assumed that you just went all MaineSail, bought all these anchors, and recorded the results for your own sets. Is that the case? Or are you including sets that you noticed of other peoples' anchors?
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  #18  
Old 10-26-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamLein View Post
Thanks very much for sharing your observations. I think more observing, and less snickering about other people observing, would overall be an improvement.

However I too am curious about how you got the drag measurement. Is it purely from diving and looking at the furrow?

Another thing: I had initially assumed that you just went all MaineSail, bought all these anchors, and recorded the results for your own sets. Is that the case? Or are you including sets that you noticed of other peoples' anchors?
From original post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by orthomartin View Post
These areas provide very clear water so normally after setting anchor I snorkel and check the set. When in the crowded Adriatic (croatia) I started checking surrounding boat anchors to see whom was going to drag on us in the night I started collecting data on what anchors, how long the drag before set, and how often it was what I called "set". For me that was about 3/4 of the surface area buried.
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Old 10-27-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skygazer View Post
From original post:
I did read the original post. But saying "I looked at X. I then collected this data: Y" does not imply that the observation of X was included in data Y. Maybe he was simply inspired to start keeping track of his own anchors' performance after seeing other peoples' sets?

Considering how it's not uncommon for the regular posters on this forum to see ignorance in the world and then do some experiments and publish results to correct that ignorance, this seems plausible to me.

How each reader chooses to interpret the results should depend a little bit on whether the sets were all done by the same person.
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  #20  
Old 10-27-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulfromNWOnt View Post
......He's CrUiSiNg... They are typically friendly people aren't they? Perhaps... wait for it.... He AsKeD??...
Therefore, I assume the tone of this reply would exclude you from being a cruiser.

I was kidding about his bad hobby as the smiley was to denote.
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