SailNet Community

SailNet Community (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/)
-   General Discussion (sailing related) (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/)
-   -   Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared? (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/80615-rescued-sea-you-prepared.html)

smackdaddy 11-09-2011 12:04 PM

Rescued at Sea - Are You Prepared?
 
One of the most epic threads EVER on SN is the one about Doug Sabbag's, and wife's, rescue from the S/V Triumph in the middle of the Atlantic. You can find it here:

S/V Triumph lost in the atlantic

Doug had the stones to come on and relate the details of his rescue. Which you've got to respect. And, as seems to always happen on every forum when this happens, a pretty good debate broke out about virtually everything that happened. It was a Monday Morning Quarterback's dream.

But, one of the most critical, and potentially positive, aspects of the debate surrounded the process of rescue. Without doubt, it is a very dangerous and messy affair as you can see by the following eye-opening videos:

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/M5W6wm9b0QY?version=3&feature=player_embedded"><pa ram name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/M5W6wm9b0QY?version=3&feature=player_embedded" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/D05V_bQFF70?version=3&feature=player_embedded"><pa ram name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/D05V_bQFF70?version=3&feature=player_embedded" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/18M1hdrsBoA?version=3&feature=player_detailpage">< param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/18M1hdrsBoA?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ufhyjVBL4Jw?version=3&feature=player_detailpage">< param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ufhyjVBL4Jw?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/E8UBLSYgBcg?version=3&feature=player_detailpage">< param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/E8UBLSYgBcg?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/c5UAPh8iw0U?version=3&feature=player_detailpage">< param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/c5UAPh8iw0U?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/GBo_52VQ168?version=3&feature=player_detailpage">< param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/GBo_52VQ168?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

<object width="420" height="245" id="msnbc573b65" <param name="movie" value="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32545640" /><param name="FlashVars" value="launch=45095430&amp;width=420&amp;height=24 5" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="wmode" value="transparent" /><embed name="msnbc573b65" src="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32545640" width="420" height="245" FlashVars="launch=45095430&amp;width=420&amp;heigh t=245" allowscriptaccess="always" allowFullScreen="true" wmode="transparent" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/download.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash"></embed></object><p style="font-size:11px; font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: #999; margin-top: 5px; background: transparent; text-align: center; width: 420px;">Visit msnbc.com for <a style="text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;" href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com">breaking news</a>, <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032507" style="text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;">world news</a>, and <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032072" style="text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;">news about the economy</a></p>

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WdGjmhEfyQU?version=3&feature=player_detailpage">< param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WdGjmhEfyQU?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zBheklT6hcE?version=3&feature=player_detailpage">< param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zBheklT6hcE?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rthuWaXnKWQ?version=3&feature=player_detailpage">< param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rthuWaXnKWQ?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>

http://www.royalgazette.com/storyima...-711089941.jpg

The debate on this matter centered around the question of how to improve this process? Do you push for uniform, industry-wide procedures, equipment and training for all AMVER participants? In other words, do you force the entire maritime industry to conform to better protocols? If so, what's the reality of that under an extremely complex quilt of political, financial, jurisdictional, logistical, linguistic and many other considerations?

Then, Sailingfool came up with a brilliant "why-didn't-we-think-about-that" point (edited a bit to stay on point):

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfool (Post 794124)
...Perhaps your effort should focus on having the USCG develop "How to cooperate in your own rescue" training for US vessels heading offshore. Naturally you can make this training mandatory, and expensive while you are at it. (Maybe throw in some training on how to prerpare for going offshore...opps, lets not go there...)

After you have trained US sailors on being competent rescuees, then you can entertain training for the mariners of the world on being competent rescuers...good luck on that.

Freakin' brilliant!! To me, this is a far, far more realistic approach than trying to change the entire maritime industry. We simply train ourselves!

So the question becomes, this:

How prepared are we sailors to be rescued at sea?

As you can see, there are many different techniques of rescue: helo/baskets, rescue boats coming along side from a cruise ship, being pulled from your boat alongside a massive tanker, being plucked from a dinghy or liferaft, being pulled directly out of the water, etc. And ALL of them have their very real dangers and need for specific consideration and preparation.

We have an incredible resource in Doug Sabbag. He was in exactly such a circumstance - experiencing several of the above scenarios. He saw many things go wrong - and saw many areas for improvement. And he's highly motivated...to say the least. And talk about a great book for him and his wife if this is part of the story!!

So, how do we make this happen?

Minnewaska 11-09-2011 01:01 PM

This would be a natural upgrade to the Safety at Sea course. The safety committee for the Newport-Bermuda race may be interested. They are detailed on that website. Many of the folks that wrote that program are affiliated.

Some of this material, such as helo-basket is, in fact, already covered.

Minnewaska 11-09-2011 01:07 PM

While it maybe obvious to many, it also covers which side of the boat you should launch your raft from. If it never occurred to you that one side is better than the other, you won't likely be in the state of mind to figure it out in the moment. So, for trivia, which is it?

smackdaddy 11-09-2011 01:07 PM

So it seems that what we need to start with is an outline for the curriculum? Should I go ahead and try to reach out to Gary Jobson?

I'm happy to give it a shot unless someone around here knows him personally and get this rolling.

(PS - Thanks Jeff/TD for moving this thread.)

Minnewaska 11-09-2011 01:14 PM

Ron Trossbach at safety@bermudarace.com is the guy you want. Ive certainly met him, but can't say I know him well. Retired Navy Captain or Admiral, IIRC.

He is the safety guy for the race and writes the safety publication.

smackdaddy 11-09-2011 01:50 PM

Okay - I just fired off an email to Gary Jobson. I'll let you guys know if/when I hear back.

(Doug - get back on here and start laying out your vision dude! Otherwise, we're going to run with it!)

peterchech 11-09-2011 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minnewaska (Post 795305)
While it maybe obvious to many, it also covers which side of the boat you should launch your raft from. If it never occurred to you that one side is better than the other, you won't likely be in the state of mind to figure it out in the moment. So, for trivia, which is it?

lee side?

GeorgeB 11-09-2011 02:24 PM

So I’m only a couple of weeks away for my trip from Las Palmas to Georgetown and all you guys can talk about is death and destruction at sea? Why can’t we discuss more important things like “the best lure to use in the Atlantic for Yellow Fin” or “favorite sushi recipes”? As AMVER is voluntary, it would ultimately be more risky to us yachtsmen if the governing authority encumbers the volunteers with more requirements just to satisfy us. I would rather be on the receiving end of a poorly executed pickup than not at all if the ship’s master (or owner) deems it too much of a hassle to respond. Any additional training lies with us yachtsmen, not the Liberian registered tankers. (The type of rescue they do is no less than what would be done for one of their own.) In seeing how difficult it is to make an open ocean transfer, could the most important training is to practice standing on a mechanical bull while changing a light bulb?

On a more practical side, you will always launch your emergency life raft on the leeward side of the boat. You will secure the raft’s painter so it is not entangled in life lines or other rigging before deploying the raft. A rescuing vessel will attempt to come along side to you windward, in order to minimize as much as possible, the effects of wind and sea.

As I mentioned before, there are great resources already out there to teach you on how to prepare for an emergency at sea. Take the Safety at Sea class. You can also take the preparation seminars for races like the Pac Cup or Transpac. My local OYRA and SSS does great safety briefings and presentations. Gain more practical experience before you venture offshore. Smack, you need to always remember that ocean sailing is inherently dangerous and risky. If you are uncomfortable with that, you need to stick to sailing in your local duck pond or perhaps take up golf.:D

CapnBilll 11-09-2011 02:36 PM

A unified "best practices" distributed among both AMVER participants, and yachters would go a long way to minimising danger, and streamlining procedure if both parties know and agree ahead of time exactly what will happen.

Minnewaska 11-09-2011 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterchech (Post 795330)
lee side?

Well done.

Can you imagine the untrained randomly choosing the windward side, making a successful entry in to the raft and being pinned against the hull as the boat sinks and its rigging tears the raft to shreds.

Next, all should have hands on, practical training in actually entering a raft at sea. If you don't make a direct dive in, trying to climb in on a net ladder is much more difficult and more exhausting than one might imagine. Once you've tried it, you will want an inflatable entry ramp. Next, try righting a raft that inflated upside down.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:55 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012