Belly in a reefed roller furled jib

[peterchech]

I was out in wind 15 knots gusting about 20-25 this weekend in my hunter 25. I had a reef in the main, and the jib furled out a little under half way. The jib cars (fairleads) were moved forward, adjusted to keep the leech and foot in proper tension. The boat, generally, will not sail under main alone except dead downwind. The slot effect seems to be crucial to my setup for some reason. Even in the strong winds this weekend, the boat was moving about 1 knot under main alone.

When I let out the reefed jib, it developed such a belly to it that the boat could not point much higher than a beam reach. Every gust would catch that scoop in the jib, and heel the boat far more than it would create any drive. It also made the boat difficult to control. If I had been out in anything stronger than the winds I experienced, the jib would have been useless and the boat unable to sail to windward (or even on a reach).

Is this common with reefed roller furled jibs? The sails are old and need to be replaced next year. Should I just get rid of the furler and use hank on jibs, so I can reef properly and be able go to windward in heavy winds? Or would a newer furler jib not have this problem?

[AdamLein]

I don't know much about what's common with reefed roller furled jibs, but I do know that swapping out a hanked-on jib for a smaller hanked-on jib isn't fundamentally different from swapping out a foil-luff jib for a smaller foil-luff jib. Same time spent on a wet, heaving foredeck, same manhandling of flapping sailcloth. If you're replacing your sails, you might as well replace them with the sails with the same type of luff.

If there's a problem with the cut of your jib, make sure your new jib doesn't have that problem.

[ccher]

Dont give up the roller furling. Have luff foam or rope installed on teh sail or if too blown out a new sail with foam or rope-whichever the sailmaker you end up with recommends. It will take the bag out of the middle of the luff-up to a point.

[Jeff_H]

Typically, even with a foam luff, a jib can only be roller-furled around 15-20% of its area (which is way less than 15-20% of the foot length) before it begins to have a shape which is too full and so next to useless for going upwind in heavy air. You are much better off starting with a smaller headsail in heavy air and then furling less if you have to furl at all.

The reason that your boat won't sail well under mainsail alone has nothing to do with the slot. It is all about balancing the side forces of the rig with those of the keel. The Hunter 25 was designed to sail with a very large headsail and small mainsail in normal conditions, so the keel is pretty far forward in the boat. With the mainsail alone (and without some jib up to balance it) you would have too much weather helm to sail well.

Jeff

[peterchech]

Although weather helm is an issue with going main alone, I don't think it's why I don't move under main alone (though I could be wrong). Even when the boat is beam reaching under main alone, and helm isn't bad, the boat really doesn't move at all unless some jib is out.

I would love to be able to switch out the roller furling jib with a smaller one when need be (like for the fall/spring when the winds tend to pick up), but I have noticed that it is extremely difficult to get my jib's luff/boltrope up the furler track if there is any wind at all. It just gets stuck in the track, there is more friction than I am able to overcome with the small luff halyard.

If even a good roller furled jib has trouble when reefed more than 15% or so, what do most serious cruisers use? I like the convenience of the roller furler, especially for reefing in the summer when the winds aren't too strong, but if I can't go out when it is really blowing then the furling jib isn't doing much for me I think...

[Faster]

If you have difficulty hoisting a sail in a luff groove there's an issue with the condition of the luff tape or with the groove itself. Visually check the condition of the luff tape, look for tears and wrinkles... sometimes these can be repaired or cleaned up. Running some McLube up the foil might be an idea too. Investigate adding a pre feeder too.. they help quite a bit.

In heavier air it's simply much better to have a proper sized headsail rather than roll it up, esp when trying to get to weather.

[AdamLein]

Originally Posted by peterchech

Although weather helm is an issue with going main alone, I don't think it's why I don't move under main alone (though I could be wrong). Even when the boat is beam reaching under main alone, and helm isn't bad, the boat really doesn't move at all unless some jib is out.

Sounds like oversheeting.

FWIW I also experience weather helm on a beam reach with main alone. If I really let the sail out, though, the boat still drives ahead fairly quickly.

[BarryL]

Originally Posted by peterchech

If even a good roller furled jib has trouble when reefed more than 15% or so, what do most serious cruisers use? I like the convenience of the roller furler, especially for reefing in the summer when the winds aren't too strong, but if I can't go out when it is really blowing then the furling jib isn't doing much for me I think...

Hey,

Some headsails are designed for roller reefing (and furling) and others are not. My UK Halsey 140% genoa has a foam luff pad that is designed to gather up the 'belly' of the sail when reefed.

Even so, that allows me to reduce the sail from a 140 to a 110 or so and still have decent (but not great) sail shape. There is a line on the foot of sail that allows me to know when it's reduced to a 110.

I don't know what 'real cruisers' do. There is a special sail called a 'gale sale' from ATN that is designed to be hoisted OVER a furled sail. Or, you can hoist a smaller jib, or you can just deal with the poor shape of a too-reefed sail.

Personally, for the type of sailing I do (mostly day sails with the occasional over night or longer trip), the 140 works well. On my boat, I can sail (slowly) in 5 kt winds and sail fine in 25 kt winds. Above 25, if I need to go upwind I drop the main, put out a little jib of jib and motorsail.

Barry

Barry

[tommays]

While not perfect i find there is so much extra wind power when its blowing 25 knots the boat keeps moving fine and is really easy to control and you can just sit back and take it easy

[nickmerc]

+1 to the over sheeting the main. I have a roller furling 150% genoa on my boat and find that I can only reef it down to ~100-110% before sail shape becomes a problem. My boat does not go to windward well under main alone but will do OK under headsail alone. Play with a few combinations in more moderate winds to see how your boat handles. I noticed a significant difference in how well my boat sailed in heavy air once I learned how properly trim and reef the sails. It just took some experimenting to figure it out.