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  #11  
Old 11-26-2011
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Have another one. On this one the sea is a bit worse but the boat is not at risk. Well sailed and running downwind with a bit of sail I am quite sure that would be perfectly alright. With an floating anchor and pointing to the wind should also be perfectly alright. I believe that the boat could even be sailed against the wind and at least be maintained stationary. Of course, not with a big genoa, but with an appropriated front sail.

The skipper has an injured harm but he injured the harm in the storm and I fail to understand why he had not a rigged stay and a storm sail on it, before the storm, for control. The boat was on a rally so he knew the bad weather was coming and should have the boat ready before the bad weather. I don't see any removable stay, so the chances is that he had not one and that is inadmissible on that type of boat with a big Genoa on an ocean crossing.

They all say the boats are making water but the chances are that in a storm a boat will not be completely watertight. I guess that for some some water on the bottom is making water. They say that the pumps were not functioning. How? Both, the manual and the electric? they they not check that before going offshore? What is the chances that both pumps are not working? The manual one is bullet prove, if some maintenance is made.





A British Yacht off Sri Lanka has sunk in the Indian Ocean as reported by Andrew Brook from Yachting Monthly. The yacht which is a Blue Water rally type wasn't able to resist a violent winds in the Indian Ocean...

Keith Harding a 68 years old skipper injured his arm, and he was unable to navigate correctly. He contacted the Falmouth Coastguard in order to receive some medical advices to gain control over the boat again. Unfortunately, the situation aggravated after an hour, and he wasn't capable of handling the force 11 winds.

Keith Harding sent a mayday before Baccus, a Sun Odyssey of 45.2 meters started to sink. He from Kent and his crew, Colin Clarke from Cambridge and Sieste Hoff from Belgium, were all rescued by a merchant vessel named Maersk Surabaya. ....

In 2007, Mr. Harding along with his wife Susan (pictured above together in Nuku Hiva, French Polynesia) who is now 63 years old started the Blue Water Rally. However, unluckily, due to their old age, they had much health related issues during their time passed in the big blue sea. On many stages, they both had to go back to their country, which is UK, because of illness.


http://www.blueoceanyachting.com/yac...ian-ocean.html


So this is the problem. Now it is "normal" to call a Mayday "before the boat started to sinking". Why as he not waited the storm to pass? The boat was intact, the rig was on. We should call for a mayday when there is a life-threatening emergency that requires immediate assistance, not before it happens or in a situation where it can happen (or not) such a situation.

You ask me if someone that calls a mayday on a non life-threatening emergency that does not require immediate assistance should pay its evacuation I would say yes. Otherwise you would have maydays always a non prepared skipper or crew is frightened and want to get out of there.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 11-26-2011 at 08:03 PM.
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  #12  
Old 11-26-2011
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Sounds to me like the issue here was actually an over zealous wife... unless of course they guy asked her to call for assistance.
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Scariest part is getting off the yacht and onto your "rescue vessel". A guy could actually get hurt doing that.
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Old 11-26-2011
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With that sea I guess that is more risky than staying on the boat.

Regards

Paulo
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Old 11-26-2011
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Great thread, and very topical discussion, since like DRFerron mentioned, we seem to be getting inundated with the "I need to buy a boat and sail around the world and I've only got 4 days to leave. Oh, and I've never stepped foot on any type of boat before". And, like she said, there's then 3 pages of folks chastising anyone that sounds logical and responds with reason. You know, when bottom is a several thousand feet below you, and you're 100 miles from the nearest dirt, there's no time for "oops, maybe I should've listened to emoney". Of course these folks are going to call for help the minute a wave washes over the rail and gets the cockpit cushions wet. I'm in no way a fan of more regulation, however, this problem is going to multiply the more people get laid off from their jobs and decide it's as simple as sailing away from their troubles. There really needs to be some form of formal training and maybe licensing is the way to go (EGAD?!?!). If nothing else, maybe it's time for the insurance companies to say, "Listen, we've reviewed this incident and we believe you abandoned ship way too soon. Sorry, but your loss isn't covered". (of course, that would never work because we'd never see another claim paid). Just these past few weeks, there's been at least 5 new threads started about sailing off into the sunset by brand new sailors........
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Old 11-26-2011
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Quote:
I just don't think this is as simple as it seems to us typing at dry desks.
Agreed.

Yes, there are idiots in every aspect of life, but that doesn't mean that we should politicize or legislate every aspect of life. In the case of rescue at sea, we do it out of humanitarian necessity, out of a moral obligation to our fellow humans. We are morally obligated to help others in need, even if they are stupid. We've all been stupid on land and at sea. All of us.

Cost? The rescuers are not contractors employed per rescue. They are already on salary waiting, trained for the opportunity to lend assistance; it's why they enter the SAR line of work. The gear is already purchased and the staff is on call; other than fuel costs (a relative pittance) it's a misnomer to think that government rescuers incur extra costs for a mission. They only quote the "cost" to justify future budgets.

I agree that one needs to be properly trained for an endeavor. But if things go wrong, we all desire assistance. I doubt that anyone would ever shrug and say "I was stupid, I deserve to die." Let's not fool ourselves, sitting in dry, safe, quiet accommodations. The sea always looks smaller and the wind less severe in a photo. Especially at my desk.

IMO, the government should not enact unenforceable laws nor should we neglect our fellow humans in need. Instead, perhaps we should as another poster recommended, admonish the newbie boaters to set aside the 'round the world sailing plans and learn the basic skills on a 14' day sailor.
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  #17  
Old 11-27-2011
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OK, I am a new sailor and I even started a thread the other day in which I claim that I will "float away" with my family to the Caribbean! Shame on me!!! DRFerron recommended I begin by reading this thread, which I guess means she is afraid I might call for an unnecessary water rescue while crossing the Gulf.

I actually LOVE reading stories of adventures at sea, lost at sea, dying at sea, etc. Next to microbiology, that's my favorite book topic. So I enjoyed the story. But...

Are yall afraid of becoming financially liable for rescuing new (or aged) sailors? Do you really want government regulation of the entire globe, including the oceans?

I know some people want to call a govnt to come save them, and it looks like others want to call the govnt to save them from people who they suspect might call a govnt to come same them. How many sailors are really statists with the govnt on speed-dial? I thought it was for more independently minded people.
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  #18  
Old 11-28-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackFlag View Post
I actually LOVE reading stories of adventures at sea, lost at sea, dying at sea, etc. Next to microbiology, that's my favorite book topic. So I enjoyed the story. But...

Are yall afraid of becoming financially liable for rescuing new (or aged) sailors?
In the US, at least, everyone pitches in for the rescue. The Coast Guard is funded in part through our tax money. The more rescues they have, the more resources are used, the more the budget needs to be increased.

And, as a former land SAR volunteer for over ten years, unneeded rescues aren't always about the money, but they are always about the rescuer's lives. Every last one of them initially volunteered to do what they do (even if they get paid to do it) and it's a human being putting his or her life on the line to help you. When that happens our first response after delivering you safely back to your family is to educate you and the community in the hopes that the next rescue operation is not pulled away from a potentially real rescue where someone's life truly is in danger.

I have participated in CG SAR cases in the Delaware and Chesapeake Bays: drunk boaters falling overboard and getting swept down the Bays, drunk boaters deciding to shed clothing in the heat and jumping overboard and getting swept away (and let me tell you, that was no Adonis that we hauled out of the water), boaters running out of gas and drifting towards open ocean because they have no radio, and others who, with just a bit of common sense, could have avoided the situation.

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Originally Posted by BlackFlag View Post
Do you really want government regulation of the entire globe, including the oceans?
We're already there to a certain extent. International Maritime Law requires boaters to respond to another boater in distress as long as it does not put the responder or the boat in danger. That may mean doing as little as providing a radio relay to the nearest Coast Guard or providing coordinates to a boater near you who has no idea where he or she is. Or it may mean a commercial ship diverting to assist a recreational boater.

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How many sailors are really statists with the govnt on speed-dial? I thought it was for more independently minded people.
All of them who carry a VHF and/or SSB radio or an EPIRB. So, that's most of them. A push of the button will put you in contact with or relay an emergency signal with your location to the nearest Coast Guard. Anyone with a smidgen of boater education would know this.

My soapbox is pretty tall when it comes to trying to help a fellow boater not become the next subject of a rescue posted to these types of forums. You may not initiate a rescue, but there may be no stopping a family member left behind from notifying the Coast Guard and in every US case a response must be started (I have no idea of the protocols of other countries).

Yes, there are "independently minded" sailors but that sometimes does more harm than good. For the most part we are a community, one that helps our members (oftentimes strangers) who are in need. In that respect the sailing community can be self-sufficient to a point because sometimes that help can be given without the need for a formal government rescue. But then there are others whose "independence" means they don't want to accept the advice and suggestions of those who have many more miles under their keel or who had been in a bad situation and survived. Those latter people who, without knowing anything, seem to know it all, are usually the ones sailing off ill-equipped and uninformed about the basics needed to calmly and safely extricate themselves from most situations that should not require a Mayday.
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Last edited by DRFerron; 11-28-2011 at 10:55 AM.
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  #19  
Old 11-28-2011
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Well said, Donna.

All you newbies - listen to her!
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  #20  
Old 11-28-2011
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No one asks for an unnecessary rescue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackFlag View Post
OK, I am a new sailor and I even started a thread the other day in which I claim that I will "float away" with my family to the Caribbean! Shame on me!!! DRFerron recommended I begin by reading this thread, which I guess means she is afraid I might call for an unnecessary water rescue while crossing the Gulf.


I know some people want to call a govnt to come save them, and it looks like others want to call the govnt to save them from people who they suspect might call a govnt to come same them. How many sailors are really statists with the govnt on speed-dial? I thought it was for more independently minded people.
All the people who pushed the EPIRB button or put out a MAYDAY call were scared sh*tless and thought that their lives were at considerable risk. It is easy for us to Monday morning quarterback them from the comfort of our computers. The problem to my way of thinking is that some of the people who put out premature SOS calls do not have enough experience to really know how bad the situation is. After getting knocked down this season in southern French Polynesia and suffering some damage (solar panel, stanchions, vane steering) we found that things looked a lot rosier after we stabilized the situation (which took a few hours) and had a good sleep. We could have panicked and pushed the button but we have had enough experience (and experiences) to realize that things were not as bad as they might have seemed - after all it was just some mess and a bit of water inside the boat (could have done without the dirt from the planters though which made the cockpit all muddy).

To the orginal poster, would it be your intention not to take an EPIRB or long distance radio equipment? Would seem what an independent-minded person would do.
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