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  #21  
Old 11-28-2011
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Paulo
About your last example, I wonder if it may be related to the fact that the boat was in the Blue Water Rally? This rally keeps up a pretty relentless pace and the boat mentioned would be near the bottom of the fleet speedwise. Would be very wearing on the crew, especially people in their 60s (and I am in my 60s so not a knock) since the port stays for rest and repair are much shorter than for faster boats in the fleet. Also might encourage the slower boats to push too hard so they get to port sooner. I understand that the Blue Water Rally is no more - don't think it is much of a loss.
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  #22  
Old 11-28-2011
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Re: the original post. I cannot believe that the Brazilians acted so quickly after they waited so long in the case of the Concordia.
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  #23  
Old 11-28-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRFerron View Post
Try explaining this to all the people on this forum who respond to new boaters who want to sail around the world that all they need is a boat and just GO with no training on how to respond in an emergency or even how to know if they are in an emergency situation to begin with.
Ha, that's funny. I'm a newbie, I'd like to think those newbie's are mostly in a pipe dream, and have fun day dreaming out loud (all the while making themselves sound like idiots.

Where do all these people get the time to sail the world? Are they all 70 years old and retired with a nice nest egg? If not, don't they have job obligations, or even family? What about that one guy who said he was going to sell everything he owned, but a boat, max his credit cards, and peace out on all of his obligations?

For all the veterans, in my opinion, it seems like a waste of time even responding to people like that. I'm a quarter century young, just joined this forum, and I don't know jack about sailing. Have I sat at work thinking about how cool it would be to leave tomorrow and maybe even just down the east coast to florida and back with my girlfriend? Hell yeah I have, and its fun to think about, and totally UNrealistic. How would I pay for the boat and my other bills?

Where the hell do these people come from?
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  #24  
Old 11-28-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paintpollz View Post
Where the hell do these people come from?
In a way it's about your priorities, compromise and how bad you want it. Some people sold their house, took a sabbatical, sailed away. I know one young couple with three kids who did that. She's earning money as a technical writer as they sail around the Pacific. Others are retired and may be living off of their retirement income. If there is no house to maintain, the money goes to the boat. Some people rent their homes while they cruise. Health care is an issue. In the US we pay more and get far less than in other countries. I know people who chose to retire to other countries for that very reason.

Get rid of the ultimate cable package with every sports channel you don't even watch, the Netflix, pedicures, car payments, $100 haircuts, restaurant dinners 4 nights a week and whittle your expenses down to the absolute minimum, you'll be surprised what you really need to live on. You'd also be surprised at the sheer enjoyment you get out of watching the sun set and the stars come out while you sit in the cockpit or dangle your feet over the side of the dock instead of watching Swamp People on TV, or how much you enjoy taking a walk in a new coastal town and soaking up the history it can show you instead of playing xBox for hours.

It's not all roses and tiki bars. There is the danger of crossing an ocean, being away from family and friends for long periods of time, the awkwardness of being in countries in which you may not know the language and in some cases the sheer astonishment of finding oneself in a small space in the middle of nowhere with a person you thought you knew before you had to spend so much time with him or her.

We're planning to eventually cruise just part of the year. Year-round and cutting all land ties is not for us. In the meantime we learn all we can about the lifestyle and where we plan to cruise and otherwise get our ducks in a row.
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  #25  
Old 11-29-2011
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Hi all,
As someone who hopes to soon cut the ties to land, I thought I would chime in. You know, the quick cries for help are not just a problem in the water. As a Firefighter for almost 30 years, I have seen our 911 calls grow from real emergencies to calls for bloody noses, sore feet, vomiting due to drinking, loneliness, keys locked in house or car, toothache, squirrel in cupboard, snake in living room, parrot in tree, upset stomach, sneezing, itching, and on and on...

What I tell my crew is that these sillyd calls keep us in business. We rarely have fires anymore, so the "darwin" calls keep us busy. It ain't glamorous, but it pays the bills. We too, get tied up on silly calls while others are having heart attacks and other real emergencies. It is a sign of the times. Everybody wants to be helped, whether they need it or not.

So, the general public will keep calling 911 for the silly reasons listed above, and the Coast Guard for the reasons listed earlier, and both of our crews will see them soon. The rest of you know when a real emergency is occurring, and will hopefully call somebody then.

Thanks, I feel better...

Cheers, Bill
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  #26  
Old 11-29-2011
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Donna, I see what you are saying. It's all about lifestyle, and what sailing really is to you. Whether its a permanent adventure home, daysailer, or weekend/vacation getaway. And you make personal finance adjustments to suite that lifestyle.

I just don't know how the average joe or joanne can just X their jobs and christopher columbus around the world without some sort of residual income. I've been planning on my weekender to be extremely expensive.

I'll keep my job and cable subsription. But I'm definitely downgrading my netflix subscription because I never use the DVDs
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  #27  
Old 11-29-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paintpollz View Post
I just don't know how the average joe or joanne can just X their jobs and christopher columbus around the world without some sort of residual income.
Say you own a home that's worth $250K. If you sell it and everything you own on land, theoretically you should be able to cruise on that money for several years if you watch your pennies. Pick up odd jobs here and there, figure out if you have some kind of skill that other boaters could use and barter or sell your services.

One thing that stands out to me, coming from the corporate world as comparison, is that serious cruisers see no shame in working jobs that the average suit would see as "beneath" him or her to do if it means being able to maintain a cruising lifestyle. I know people who work three months or six months or whatever behind a counter and then move on. Sail for months, find someplace else to work and refill the till. Some of these people came from desk jobs and find the freedom from the corporate hierarchy and BS well worth the drop in pay. I'm two steps from that myself.
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  #28  
Old 11-29-2011
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Onerous regulations and insurance requirements would put many of us out sailing, sink the marine industry, and serve only to eliminate all but the very wealthy from sailing. In this situation, the guy was obviously not a capable navigator. Perhaps to eliminate these kinds of calls a test demonstrating knowledge of basic sextant use COULD be a good thing. Everyone going offshore should have the ability to at least take a noon sight so he/she can estimate position without a GPS. No boat should be offshore i.m.o. without a battery powered, waterproof handheld GPS as a backup. As in all matters where the taxpayer is left holding the bag, lack of personal responsibility is at the core.

Maybe the criteria for free rescue should be sunk vessel or imminent death, otherwise you pay for frivolous calls.
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Old 11-29-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRFerron View Post
One thing that stands out to me, coming from the corporate world as comparison, is that serious cruisers see no shame in working jobs that the average suit would see as "beneath" him or her to do if it means being able to maintain a cruising lifestyle. I know people who work three months or six months or whatever behind a counter and then move on. Sail for months, find someplace else to work and refill the till. Some of these people came from desk jobs and find the freedom from the corporate hierarchy and BS well worth the drop in pay. I'm two steps from that myself.
I come from the corporate world of BS as well. Maybe I need to get to know some of these people. I could learn a lot.
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  #30  
Old 11-29-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killarney_sailor View Post
All the people who pushed the EPIRB button or put out a MAYDAY call were scared sh*tless and thought that their lives were at considerable risk.... The problem to my way of thinking is that some of the people who put out premature SOS calls do not have enough experience to really know how bad the situation is.....

To the orginal poster, would it be your intention not to take an EPIRB or long distance radio equipment? Would seem what an independent-minded person would do.
Yes you are right. Around here it is pretty normal to have 20ft waves, some pretty steep, and that does not represent any real danger to sailing but sometimes when I go out with friends with small sailing experience they get scared sh*tless with that.

I am pretty sure that a professional ocean solo racer will have a much higher threshold in what he considers worrying sea conditions than me. I have seen solo racers going in small boats at full blast in conditions that would scare and put relatively experienced sailors doing defensive sailing.

It is obvious to me that to go seriously offshore there should be a minimum experience and that experience should not only be attested by the "candidate" but by some much more experienced sailor. The sea is dangerous and it is a social irresponsibility to allow someone, that does not have a clue about what he is doing, to put not only his life in risk, but the life of his family and all of those that would have to rescue him.

This is not only about money and resources (the ones that are wasted rescuing a crew that should not have need to be rescued) but also a question of social responsibility.

Probably on Europe we have a more social approach about responsibility. Here it would be unthinkable that someone could drive a car, pilot a plan or carry a gun without having to prove to society that he or she can do that safely and without endangering other's lives. I don't see why with boats it should be different, after all if one is competent at sailing, navigation and knows the sea regulations there is no reason to be worried regarding a practical and theoretical test.

Of course I think that everybody going offshore should carry an Epirb. I even consider that should be mandatory (it is mandatory in many countries) because in case of real trouble it is not only the life of the skipper that are at risk, but all the lives of the ones that are with him. Also an Epirb will make a search and rescue much more effective, wasting less resources that can be used to save someone else.

The problem is simple, a Mayday, as state the rules, should only be deployed
when "a situation is one in which a vessel, aircraft, vehicle, or person is in grave and imminent danger and requires immediate assistance. Examples of "grave and imminent danger" in which a mayday call would be appropriate include fire, explosion or sinking."


Mayday - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These cases on this thread are in my opinion not Mayday situations but PAN PAN situations:

In radiotelephone communications, a call of three repetitions of pan-pan is used to signify that there is an urgency on board a boat, ship, aircraft or other vehicle but that, for the time being at least, there is no immediate danger to anyone's life or to the vessel itself. This is referred to as a state of urgency. This is distinct from a Mayday call, which means that there is imminent danger to life or to the continued viability of the vessel itself.

A pan pan situation has a complete different treatment than a mayday and in a sailboat in bad weather, with a disable engine and taking some water but without the risk of sinking does not call for a rescue.

What is happening is that many people, or sailors as you prefer, are calling maydays when they think the situation can lead to a life threatening event. That is no reason for a mayday. A mayday should only be called when life is effectively at imminent risk.

Having no control over the boat is no reason for a mayday if the boat is intact and the ingress of water can be controlled and a lee shore is not close. I have friends that have been for 3 or 4 days closed inside the boat on floating anchor (and on small light boats) in horrible conditions, waiting the storm to pass without calling a mayday. This is quite normal and all sailors that go out deep on the ocean should know that can happen and be prepared for that.

It obviously seems that is not the case.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 11-29-2011 at 11:46 AM.
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