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  #51  
Old 11-30-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancelot9898 View Post
"the captain was told he would be removed by force from the vessel if he didnt leave it and the boat of course was found in sound condition weeks later."

He may have been told that but I can not envision how under survival conditions someone is going to be removed against their will.
As I remember from the report after the incident of the
Satori, the captain stated he had some sort of captain's license and was afraid if he did not follow the CG orders that the license could be revoked.
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  #52  
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Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
In response to the discussion on reliance on electronics, I think it is very important to have DR skills. This method of determining position has been largely forgotten by many because of the more accurate and convenient GPS technology. LORAN and RDF were precursors to the newest chartplotter tech. but they all have one thing in common: 12v. When the electricity fails, which it WILL at some point, those without DR skills are simply...lost.

I use a chartplotter and have a backup battery GPS, they are great, but would never try to navigate without a paper chart and a compass. As I have posted before, it is easy to print b/w charts while at anchor from your chartplotter/computer on a cheap inkjet printer (laser will not work on converter). This also gives you the ability to print large or small scale and gives you something to take notes on for log entry later. I make booklets of charts to keep right in the cockpit which are very handy, especially in seeing a larger picture than on the little plotter screen.

I'm sure many of us can remember the problems in trying to navigate with DR alone and no one would want to go back there BUT when all else fails DR will get you where you want to go.
When I first started sailing in 1980 I crewed on a boat from Annapolis to Antigua. We had only a sextant, a log and charts. In a storm for 3 days we could not take noon sites due to clouds, used DR. The log we used was a metal fully mechanical one hung from the stern rail and had about 100 feet of line to a propeller. A few weeks ago I was looking to buy one of these but no one seems to make them. Everthing I see is electrical and solid state. Any idea where you can buy a mechanical log like this?
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  #53  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
Any idea where you can buy a mechanical log like this?
There is one on ebay. It is in the UK.
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  #54  
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There is one on ebay. It is in the UK.
Thanks, I see other also on E-bay, although most do not have the propeller. Does anyone still make an all mechanical log?

When we were sailing we did loose one propeller, we think a shark or large fish bit it off. We had a spare propeller and installed it. So it would be nice to have a source for the propeller if one is lost.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
When I first started sailing in 1980 I crewed on a boat from Annapolis to Antigua. We had only a sextant, a log and charts. In a storm for 3 days we could not take noon sites due to clouds, used DR. The log we used was a metal fully mechanical one hung from the stern rail and had about 100 feet of line to a propeller. A few weeks ago I was looking to buy one of these but no one seems to make them. Everthing I see is electrical and solid state. Any idea where you can buy a mechanical log like this?
I have one for sale if you are interested contact me. This is a Walker log
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
When I first started sailing in 1980 I crewed on a boat from Annapolis to Antigua. We had only a sextant, a log and charts. In a storm for 3 days we could not take noon sites due to clouds, used DR. The log we used was a metal fully mechanical one hung from the stern rail and had about 100 feet of line to a propeller. A few weeks ago I was looking to buy one of these but no one seems to make them. Everthing I see is electrical and solid state. Any idea where you can buy a mechanical log like this?
I had one in my first boat. It was the most modern hardware it had. well, it only had that and a compass

I bought it in England but I guess that nobody is making them anymore because that was an expensive piece of equipment. Yes it was a precision mechanic device and as all mechanic complex things it would be much more expensive to build than an electronic one. Mine was a lot simpler but it was basically this:



It was called a knotmeter. This guys still make an inexpensive and much simpler version that works not with rotation but with water pressure :

orders

Regards

Paulo
smurphny likes this.

Last edited by PCP; 11-30-2011 at 12:37 PM.
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  #57  
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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
There is nothing like looking at a full size chart; beats the heck out of a 8 inch screen.

I do have electronic charts on both my desk top and my netbook. They are useful as a shift from boat to boat. I also have my toy charts on my Android phone.

I teach coastal navigation on paper charts and chart 1, using paper tide and current tables.

I envy you the cognac; for some reason as a I have matured my tolerance for spirits (cognac, sipping rum and single malt scotch) as diminished - brutal headaches.
Sorry about the headaches Jack. I was getting headaches until I found I had become allergic to Corn of all things. The damned stuff is in everything! Lots of alcohol products have things like corn in them to precipitate headaches. Lots of beers have corn products. Some I can drink, others will give me a headache after drinking even one. It's possible you may be allergic to something specific that you can eliminate, not just booze in general.
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Faith in the skipper? Once upon a time I crewed on a Mapleleaf 42. Master's sextant put us 150 miles out off the Cal /Oregon line.Really rough,ripped mainsail, while furling, rode the boom back and forth when the sheet block shackle fell off .Motoring east in fog at 3am I thought 'that feels like a ground swell ' Went on deck to see a white line ahead. Sounder said 30 ft so I grabbed the helm and came about. My transistor radio indicated position near Wash/Oregon. But I'm not the navigator.---- Later I look out a port to see a large rock go by. Blunt's reef in fog at daybreak .--Later I spent some time at the masthead replacing the swiveling jib halyard block so we could untangle the halfway jib. Fairly choppy off San Fran and bruises to prove it. After several full on broaches, the wind dropped past the Cape but left a big sea from all directions. The engine was full of water and batteries dead. Only a crescent wrench and a B.Stratton portable. After things get going, I find the alternator output went direct to the ammeter by the compass and then to both battery banks. Duh? Pretty beat by this time. Motor sailing, 7 knots , fog, 3 am some where off Channel Isl. Skipper shakes me and says "We're lost" I go aft to see the taftrail log while he locks himself in the aft cabin. Our only chart covered Cape Flattery to Mexico but I'd been to San Diego by bus two years before and knew where it was so I motored for a long time and anchored in fog at Shelter Island at 3 am. Although there were 4 of us on board. I was tired of opening cans of peas and beans together and was pretty glad to get ashore and hitch hike north.All in all, I learned a bunch about ships and the men what sails them
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Originally Posted by Capt Len View Post
Faith in the skipper? Once upon a time I crewed on a Mapleleaf 42. Master's sextant put us 150 miles out off the Cal /Oregon line.Really rough,ripped mainsail, while furling, rode the boom back and forth when the sheet block shackle fell off .Motoring east in fog at 3am I thought 'that feels like a ground swell ' Went on deck to see a white line ahead. Sounder said 30 ft so I grabbed the helm and came about. My transistor radio indicated position near Wash/Oregon. But I'm not the navigator.---- Later I look out a port to see a large rock go by. Blunt's reef in fog at daybreak .--Later I spent some time at the masthead replacing the swiveling jib halyard block so we could untangle the halfway jib. Fairly choppy off San Fran and bruises to prove it. After several full on broaches, the wind dropped past the Cape but left a big sea from all directions. The engine was full of water and batteries dead. Only a crescent wrench and a B.Stratton portable. After things get going, I find the alternator output went direct to the ammeter by the compass and then to both battery banks. Duh? Pretty beat by this time. Motor sailing, 7 knots , fog, 3 am some where off Channel Isl. Skipper shakes me and says "We're lost" I go aft to see the taftrail log while he locks himself in the aft cabin. Our only chart covered Cape Flattery to Mexico but I'd been to San Diego by bus two years before and knew where it was so I motored for a long time and anchored in fog at Shelter Island at 3 am. Although there were 4 of us on board. I was tired of opening cans of peas and beans together and was pretty glad to get ashore and hitch hike north.All in all, I learned a bunch about ships and the men what sails them


Well, there is something we can take for that amusing story

Don't crew if you don't know the captain or if you don't trust him.

Regards

Paulo
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That story remembers me of another one, with airplanes, not boats.

I was a 18 year's old kid, but already a pilot with some experience (I was training younger kids) when an Air force Major, that was that day the field instructor, asked me to go with his friend, a 10 000 hour civilian middle age pilot (from a big Air company), for an airplane ride.

The plane was an Auster. I took off and the guy asked me to assume control of the plane and we start to make some tight turns that scared the hell out of me. No I was not afraid of tight maneuvers I was afraid because I understood that the guy did not know what he was doing. He was losing altitude in the turns without noticing, increasing the airplane speed to near the limits it could break. I was forced to call his attention to it and when he pulled the airplane up without taking out some engine (putting a lot of Gs on the wings) I had to do that myself excusing to be interfering with his flight.

When we come down I was quite relieved and asked him if he wanted me to land the airplane (hoping he said yes) but he said no.... Well, what could go wrong? Even in a messy landing the plane should take it.

With some Zig-Zags he managed to align the plane (it was an airforce landing strip, quite wide) he put it parallel to the stripe and then without waiting for the airplane to lose enough speed, pulled the stick sharply back, without giving me any chance to correct that. Maybe that's how he used to do on a 747, but that does not work on a light plane. We went up before falling down from 3 meters high

We lost the landing gear, the propeller and had lots of luck in not having capsized the thing, that was gliding over the engine making a huge noise and a lot of sparks. I jumped the plane before it stopped, furious with myself for letting him land the plane!

Well, that was my lesson, the one that match your own. From that day on I learned that things are not always what they seem and started to have a lot more care in who I was putting my trust with

Regards

Paulo
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