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Has the America's Cup lost...?

6K views 35 replies 24 participants last post by  L124C 
#1 ·
Has the America's Cup lost its sheer sailing appeal to anyone else? First, let me say that I am a cruiser through and through and that I don't mean to start a negative thread (or antagonize any multi-hullers out there) but the Cup does not hold the same significance for me that it once did. The last Cup was mired in courtroom hearings that left a sour taste and this Cup features these new 72-foot multi-hulls moving 1.5 times the true wind speed downwind.

I know that the boats have evolved since the beginning and that technology will continue to improve and boats will become faster, more manuverable and generally capable of doing things that were impossible in the past but, when I look back at the Cups of the 80's (excluding '88), 90's and 00's I see more pure racing than todays events--more focus on the sailing and crew than the boats and politics.

Are we past the point of no return? Can we get back to the basics and infuse the old enthusiasm into the sport? I was in New Zealand in 2007 while the Louis Vuitton was going on and there were crowds in every pub and TVs set up on milk crates on street corners airing the races. A Kiwi friend tells me that it's not the same anymore. That's the excitement I want back in the sport. Is it gone for good?
 
#2 ·
For me, it's not the multihulls (the old rules didn't say they couldn't be used) but that the financial bar to participate has been raised so high that a sailing team not backed by a multi-billion dollar corporation can no longer compete.
 
#3 ·
Check out some of the books on AC history. You will see that nothing has really changed right from the late 1800s. My favorite is "Temple to The Wind" which is the story of Nathaniel Herreshof.

Names like Carnegie, NYYC and Lipton were who ran the teams back then. Certainly not your average Joes. Court battles also ensued back then.
 
#4 ·
I accept that it always has cost a lot of money.

But I'm just not interested in seeing it done with cat hulls. They're just drag racers, all straight-line speed. None of the upwind tacking duels and close-quarters maneuvering which to me are the heart of racing.

There's a reason why 99%(?) of one-design racers aren't cats. And it ain't money. They just take all afternoon to tack, and are not satisfying to race even if it's between reach marks only.
 
#7 ·
But I'm just not interested in seeing it done with cat hulls. They're just drag racers, all straight-line speed. None of the upwind tacking duels and close-quarters maneuvering which to me are the heart of racing.
Have you actually watched any of the racing? It most definitely is a tacking/gybing duel and the courses have been designed to force the competitors to race in close quarters. Because they're being sailed close to land the courses are shorter and tighter. Take a look at the San Diego fleet race finals.
 
#5 ·
Who can forget the Americas Cup in 1983 when Conner in Liberty held of the Winged Keel Austrailia two for 7 races before finally losing the cup to the vastly superior boat with the first bulb/ winged keel. His feat of tacking and pinning the Aussies boat was one of the most glorious match races I ever saw.

Now its a hyper money techno race.....although it was already starting to be that back then, with thelarge corporate sponsors and syndicates.
 
#6 ·
I agree about the amount of litigation involved, and think it's revolting. Regarding your experience in NZ....The Kiwi's are the most enthusiastic sailors on the planet IMO. Don't expect the same experience here. Having said that, check out this coverage of the San Diego AC races. AmericasCup's Channel - YouTube
I'll be surprised if it doesn't excite you, and make you think the changes will be good for sailing in general. I love sailing and racing my mono hull, and respect tradition. However, for me, watching a mono hull race is like watching grass grow, with brief exceptions. It's a new AC and I'm exited about it!
 
#9 ·
@midlifesailor:
Thanks for the reference to the NYYC Invitationals. I too have been looking for some video that reminded me of the racing coverage from when I was a kid (Aussie here, so we're talking about the Sydney to Hobart & similar) as we get no race coverage these days. YouTube and your reference brings up some great amateur sailing video :)
 
#12 ·
Well, I started off thinking that I'd rather see a mono race, but after seeing the cats fly, I can't wait to see the big ones duke it out for the cup. There are lots of rich folks who can pay the freight, but corporate adds are not such a bad price to pay for what looks to be a very exciting show. Pat
 
#13 ·
Oh - when I'm named Emperor, the SECOND thing that's going to happen is that the America's Cup race is going to be restricted to 10 meter monohulls with canvas sails and hemp ropes. Maybe wooden hulls, if I'm in a bad mood.

What's that? What's the FIRST thing that's going to happen?

It's going to become a felony to decorate or advertise for the Christmas holiday shopping season until AFTER Santa passes the reviewing stand during the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade.
 
#14 ·
There are plenty of Corinthian races these days - the NYYC invite is a fine example. The amateur match racing circuit is another ( see Baldwincup.com for an example )


However, there is simply no all out insane extreme race expect for the AC. let the vulgarians have the AC. It might do the sport some serious good.


I saw 2 days of the AC45s in SD last week - it was very different than what I consider as true Corinthian racing , but let the brash, loud, and very fast professionals have their fun.

We can't all wear crested blazers and mumble while drinking dark and stormys at the club bar.
 
#16 ·
The AC has gone from a rich man's (women's) sport, to an uber-rich corporate sport. There are no underdogs anymore, they are mathematically eliminated by their checkbook.

I have nothing against corporations, but they exist only on paper. Only people can have passion.

Do any watch US college basketball and remember a couple of seasons ago when Cornell made it to the third round of the NCAA playoffs? Cornell, a top US Ivy League school that forbids athletic scholarships was to play Kentucky, who didn't have a single player that wasn't on a full scholarship. A group of talented young men, who went to school principally to get an education, where to play a powerhouse of athletes, who went to school for free so that their University can inspire esprit de corps and raise money. Most of the Kentucky players will not graduate.

Kentucky, of course, won. While I have no objection to Kentucky's business model, the sport allows a Cornell to be in the game and many were pulling for them.

The AC has lost that.
 
#17 ·
I am all for new technologies being developed and influencing our cruising boats and this all is driven by the America's Cup and other like races where hardware companies are striving to put their gear on cutting edge boats.

What I would like to see happen to the America's Cup is the addition of a "classic" race in which "J" class or "W" class boats go head to head. If this is unreasonable due to the shear size and expense of these beauties, maybe limit it to 12 meter yachts. Oh, and let's keep them all wooden:)

Also, while I'm at it, since the crews are not limited to country origin/race teams, I think that the venues could be rotated like they do in the Olympics where countries compete to win the venue selection.
 
#19 ·
I lost interest in AC a long time ago. After the Aussie and Kiwi victories, it stopped being an international competition and became big business duking it out. Big business support is OK, but the ligatious stuff turns me off. I follow the Vendee Globe now for thrills, chills and real, hairy racing in real boats. (at least most of them make it through an ocean or two):D
 
#20 ·
I would like to see it nationalized. Even though that was never a requirement.

A Scotsman named Charlie Barr was selected as captain of the Cup defender COLUMBIA, which defeated Sir Thomas Lipton's SHAMROCK in three straight races in 1899.

BTW, Lipton(as in Lipton tea) was the Larry Ellison of that time. He used his corporate resources to try and buy a cup. He never did succeed although NYYC did always manage to tweak the rules in their favor. It could be argued that the US basically controlled the cup through cheating but Lipton was always above that and accepted defeat graciously. Very much unlike Ellison.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Here is an excellent article that addresses the evolution of the AC and the technical aspects of the cats. Worth a look, I certainly learned a lot. To quote the article: The next America's Cup will, as Oracle Racing's CEO Russell Coutts puts it, "meet the expectations of the Facebook generation, not the Flintstone generation." (Coutts and me!)
Winging It: America's Cup Racers Push the Sailboat to Its Limits | Magazine
 
#25 ·
...."meet the expectations of the Facebook generation, not the Flintstone generation." .....
Good luck to them. There isn't a single member of the Facebook gen that owns a boat at my marina and that generation is entering sailing in fewer numbers than the Flintstones. Sounds doomed as a spectator sport. The rich guys can joust privately as long as they are amused by it, otherwise, it will vanish. Corp sponsorship is marketing, which won't work if there are not enough to market to.
 
#29 ·
As much as I miss the days of watching the AC in Newport and get a woody looking at a restored j class, watching racing for the average consumer is about as exciting as watching paint dry. Peoples attention spans are to short. How much coverage do you see of sailing at the olympics.
As far as advertising look at any sporting event. Every available inch to display on is sold.
Anything that can be done to bring the AC closer to more spectators w/ more action will be good for the sport.
Jim
 
#36 · (Edited)
You may be onto something. However, I'd rather see the VS girls crewing the boats (funny, yet visually stimulating)!
It may take something like this to get any interest generated in the US. The combined attendance of the recent AC event in San Diego was around 80,000 (over several days) and the cable viewership was around 3,000. The Newscaster who revealed this on the local evening news pointed out that there were currently over 175,000 viewers currently watching him!
BTW: jimrafford, your avatar gives a whole new perspective to sailing up wind!
 
#32 ·
I watched the racing at Cowes. I thought it had everything going fopr it. Tacking duels, a little crashing derby thrills, and some awesome speed. I believe this is one of the best things that could raise interest in the A/C.

It has always been about money, and litigation. Why would it be any different now? Instead of being hundreds of thousand it's hundreds of millions. Check out the dollar rate for the 1800's, and today. I am sure it's still close in money spent. I reread the GRAND GESTURE recently again. It tells a lot of the same story with politics, and money involved. Not to mention the GOOD OLD BOY system in place.......i2f
 
#33 ·
you know what really sucks, is that if the wind and the waves are not just right they don't race.Whats up with that.What happened to seamanship.At are local marina they race every Wed.Don't even go there about how much the boat cost and sails.They use to have to sail the boat across the big pond just to get to the starting line.
 
#35 ·
Not sure what you are talking about here (multi/mono). Check out the AC You Tube site AmericasCup's Channel - YouTube . 25 Knot multi hull carnage in Europe, yet they were able to produce exciting sailing in 5 knots of wind in San Diego! On the other hand, the mono hulls in the AC in New Zealand couldn't sail in more than 15 knots. The big offshore swells that developed in 15+ Knot winds could break the hulls in half.
 
#34 ·
The first time my folks saw a sailboat race they were out on my beach cat

"What are all those boats doing over there, sailing slow and close together?"

"They're racing."

"Oh, it's like a whispering contest, right?"

----

Just funning ya guys. We love sailing up to monohulls, looking at the pretty boat, and moving on.

----

I don't see what's wrong with rich folk wasting their money trying to build fast round-the-buoy racers. It's not as though we don't waste what we have on sailing. I get a kick out of both the spectacle and the litigation.
 
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