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  #81  
Old 12-17-2011
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Originally Posted by Lake Superior Sailor View Post
Richardsons chart book Lake Superior hard one to find--Dale

Yeah I don't have that one. Sorry I could not help..
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  #82  
Old 12-17-2011
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Thanks ! anyway it's all about the thought,-- Dale
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  #83  
Old 12-17-2011
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In the interest of fair disclosure, philosophically, I agree with the point about factories producing items cheaply overseas, especially when those factories are doing so to circumvent polution and worker safety rules in the States, and philosophically, I am also concerned with the shipping of jobs overseas to people who are not paid above the prevailing wage where they live. I see these are big societal issues, but ones which I personally try to weigh when making big purchases. My personal opinion on these issues have nothing to do with the various actions taken here.

While these issues are related to the problems of Ameican Yacht builders and suppliers, including the apparently now defunct sail loft in question, I also understand that some of you believe that the issues being raised may go beyond the specific issues being discussed in this thread. Yet in moderating this thread, regardless of my viewpoint,within the context of this discussion, I believe that these are still valid discussion points and so therefore they have been allowed to remain in this thread rather than being moved to Off-Topic. Similarly discussion about the Sailmakers in question has been allowed to remain as they appear to be based on information that is either personal or can be based on the online citations referenced, the veracity of which can only be judged by the reader.

What has been deleted are items that were perceived by myself, and my fellow moderators as personal attacks and threats in violation of forum rules. Our goal in doing so was not to censor or muzzle a diverse point of view, but to maintain this site as a place where people can engage in a lively dialogue, even one in which there are clearly strongly held divergent points of view, without posters feeling threatened or personally attacked for their viewpoint. Forum rules allow you to argue the facts all day long but do not permit a member to demean fellow posters.

For those of you who do not know, SailNet's moderators were all normal SailNet members who were then asked to assist in policing the site. We are un-paid volunteers who do this simply because we believe in what SailNet offers, in other words, a family friendly forum for discussing sailing issues. We work hard to balance that goal, with being fair-minded and even handed. If we have an agenda, it is to provide a place where all viewponts can be civilly explored. When in doubt, we discuss our concerns amougst ourselves, behind the scene and generally reach a consensus before we take a serious action.

I also want to mention the comments made about SailNet's earlier bankruptsy. I have been a poster on SailNet since sometime in the early to mid-1990's and was a normal member at the time of the reorganzation. In fact, I had a NEMA to Raymarine Seatalk translator on order at the time the company folded and its assets were purchased by the current owners. After the company was reorganized I received an email offering to either deliver the part or else credit my credit card. I think I took the credit but I can't recall. I had figured the amount charged was lost and was appreciative that the new owners chose to do the right thing. It was several years later I was offered and agreed to the opportunity to be a moderator on this site.

I hope that those of you who have descibed having outstanding balances will see an acceptable resolution. For the rest of you, I will caution everyone against casting speculative aspersions.

Respectfully,
Jeff
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  #84  
Old 12-17-2011
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Well said Jeff.
As Caribbean 2012 has had his say I won't touch on his points or the finical status, or lack thereof, of K-H. The underling problem that customers have had with K-H and other lofts or retailers like them is that while they were good at what they did, in the case of said loft...make sails. They did not have a professional to do their web store. Just because you can cook doesn't mean you can run a restaurant. Just because you can make sails doesn't mean you can sell them on the web.

I've had good and bad experiences buying from K-H. The bad I just used their web page. No confirmation email, no receipt and a delay in shipping. When I picked up the phone and placed a call to order something, a different story completely. From reading others post here and else wear I'm sure your mileage may vary. Point is from a customers viewpoint, be sure of web page is secure (HTTPS) and that it looks like a professional setup. For the store owners become a professional or hire a professional.
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  #85  
Old 12-17-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake Superior Sailor View Post
Thanks ! anyway it's all about the thought,-- Dale
I'm sure you must know this already but just in case....NOAA has all US charts available, downloadable for free online. They are compatible with most nav. software or can be printed out. RNC Downloads

By the way, well said Jeff.
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  #86  
Old 12-17-2011
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Well said Jeff

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  #87  
Old 12-17-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
I'm sure you must know this already but just in case....NOAA has all US charts available, downloadable for free online. They are compatible with most nav. software or can be printed out. RNC Downloads

By the way, well said Jeff.
I'm not familiar with the Richardsons chart book, and don't know what particular features that made them desirable. If it's because of the convenience factor of having a book, don't forget that NOAA currently has an experimental BookletChart product that can be downloaded for free and printed onto normal 8.5x11 paper. I've done this for my sailing area using two-sided printing and stapled them into a book form. They're very nice to have around for planning and reference:

NOAA BookletCharts for Great Lakes

Note that 14961 covers all of Lake Superior, and there are numerous others giving more detail on sections of the lake.
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  #88  
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Thanks for the tip about Booklet Charts, Rhythm Doc. They look useful.
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  #89  
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Hello all,
while a member of this site for some time I do not post regularly although barely a day goes by without me reading the majority of threads. I bought a sail from Kelly Hansen earlier this year and it was not the most pleseant of experiences. I did post my experience of the Catalina site which read as follows.

Response Posted - 09/11/2011 : 04:41:36
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello everyone,
I have to admit that I am not a Catalina owner but was looking at your site when searching for any information on Kelly Hansen sails and came across your site. Unfortunately we had already ordered a 130% furling genoa through the internet site when I read all the negative comments. Prior to the purchase we had very good communication with KH but after one month no sail had arrived. After several emails of which none were replied I finally rang the company to be told that the sail had not be sent and was sitting on the floor packaged and they wanted more to post the Item. After some discussion they promised to post it that day and supply a tracking number. This did not materialise after a week so we lodged a complaint through Paypal who we used to pay for the item. After much to and fro we finally recieved our sail this week. I have to admit the sail looks as good and well constructed as any sail I was comtemplating over here. I have no issue with the quality or price but the service cerctainly leaves a lot be be desired. Had we not raised a a complaint with Paypal I doubt we would have our sail today. Its a shame really, they seem to have a good product but lousy service. Would I use them again, only if I could walk in to the loft, pick the sail up there and then, pay and walk out.Unfortunately its a long walk from Oz to the US of A "

It was interesting in that I had several personal calls with Art Hansen prior to purchasing the sail but after ordering the sail no calls or emails were returned. Several associates were waiting to see the sail to place their own orders but after seeing the muck around and no excuses' forthcoming they placed their orders elsewhere. The facts in this are all supported in emails to KH and correspondence with paypal.

Last edited by ozsailer; 12-17-2011 at 09:23 PM.
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  #90  
Old 12-17-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozsailer View Post
Hello all,
while a member of this site for some time I do not post regularly although barely a day goes by without me reading the majority of threads. I bought a sail from Kelly Hansen earlier this year and it was not the most pleseant of experiences. I did post my experience of the Catalina site which read as follows.

Response Posted - 09/11/2011 : 04:41:36
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello everyone,
I have to admit that I am not a Catalina owner but was looking at your site when searching for any information on Kelly Hansen sails and came across your site. Unfortunately we had already ordered a 130% furling genoa through the internet site when I read all the negative comments. Prior to the purchase we had very good communication with KH but after one month no sail had arrived. After several emails of which none were replied I finally rang the company to be told that the sail had not be sent and was sitting on the floor packaged and they wanted more to post the Item. After some discussion they promised to post it that day and supply a tracking number. This did not materialise after a week so we lodged a complaint through Paypal who we used to pay for the item. After much to and fro we finally recieved our sail this week. I have to admit the sail looks as good and well constructed as any sail I was comtemplating over here. I have no issue with the quality or price but the service cerctainly leaves a lot be be desired. Had we not raised a a complaint with Paypal I doubt we would have our sail today. Its a shame really, they seem to have a good product but lousy service. Would I use them again, only if I could walk in to the loft, pick the sail up there and then, pay and walk out.Unfortunately its a long walk from Oz to the US of A "

It was interesting in that I had several personal calls with Art Hansen prior to purchasing the sail but after ordering the sail no calls or emails were returned. Several associates were waiting to see the sail to place their own orders but after seeing the muck around and no excuses' forthcoming they placed their orders elsewhere. The facts in this are all supported in emails to KH and correspondence with paypal.
This is our point exactly. A small business lives and dies by it's customer service. No matter what industry you are in the word gets around. Plus you are only as good as your last job.

Treat the customer right and they'll not only return for more but also tell their friends. Any problems at our company get the first priority, we will not rest until the problems are taken care of. Let's face it we all make mistakes, the test of a good company is how they react when a issue comes up.
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