Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items









Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 



Like Tree4Likes
  • 4 Post By Maine Sail

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2011
rikhall's Avatar
old guy :)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Fredericton, NB, Canada
Posts: 723
Rep Power: 5
rikhall will become famous soon enough
CampBell Sailer - any first hand experience??

Campbell Sailer prop - have any of you purchased this propeller and installed it on your sailboat? I would like to hear some personal experience stories for this specific prop.

Thanks

Rik
__________________
Irwin Citation 34

Last edited by rikhall; 12-03-2011 at 02:44 PM. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2011
DoubleEnder's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Buzzards Bay
Posts: 70
Rep Power: 2
DoubleEnder is on a distinguished road
I bought one for my old boat Morris Frances 26 5 or 6 years ago. It worked excellent. Had plenty of grunt (very responsive). My hull speed when powering was better and I do believe under sail the boat was faster. It was a two blade. Much better than the Michigan prop previously used.

I plan to get one as an upgrade on my Leigh 30 soon.

Brian
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 127
Rep Power: 6
fordo is on a distinguished road
Installed one on my Tartan 30 when I repowered. Norm was very helpful. When first installed it wouldn't get quite up to hull speed but I increased the pitch an inch and now it's fine.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2011
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 9,275
Rep Power: 9
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
We switched (on a previous boat - 40 ft) from a worn out two blade martec folder to a 3 blade Campbell prop. The improvement in thrust, smoothness and reverse performance was very satisfactory. There was, of course, a loss in speed under sail over the folder in the lower wind ranges.

But overall we were pleased. It's a decent economical compromise between the std Michigan wheel and the more costly folders/feathering props. Gotta say, however, that we love the Max prop we currently have in the boat we own now.
__________________
".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)



1984 Fast/Nicholson 345
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2011
jrd22's Avatar
Courtney the Dancer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: San Juan Islands., WA, USA
Posts: 2,873
Rep Power: 12
jrd22 will become famous soon enough
We have one, three blade. I like the simplicity and toughness of a solid prop (and the price) but I'm sure it causes some drag at lower wind speeds. It was on the boat when we bought it so I've nothing to compare it to. The thrust is good both in forward and reverse (I think it's a bit under pitched.), but nothing like the Autoprop we had on our previous boat. Fair amount of prop walk initially in reverse at idle, we need to put the trans in reverse while sailing or it will autorotate.
__________________
John
SV Laurie Anne

1988 Brewer 40 Pilothouse

Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2011
Maine Sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 3,798
Rep Power: 13
Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice
Here's a review I posted on another forum a while ago:

After much research and consternation I decided on a new prop this past winter.

Mechanical vs. Fixed:

As much as I would have liked a feathering prop, Max-Prop or Variprofile were my choices, I decided against it after speaking at length with my local prop shop and a few friends at boat yards.

With the tides in Maine we get lots of floating debris, floating line and lobster pots. As was stated to me by more than one prop shop, and more than one boat yard employee, the mechanical props are just not as reliable when you hit something. This happens in Maine. This is not to say they are not durable but when I was staring at a four year old mechanical prop overhaul, on the bench at my local shop, for "$900.00-$1000.00", it made my decision that much easier.

The minimal drag of a feathering prop would be awesome but I don't race my own boat so 3-6 seconds per mile lost out to durability, simplicity and reliability. Folders were not even considered this time around and because I have already owned them in the past it was easy to rule them out this time. I do however like the Flex-O-Folds as they are durable, robust and quite smooth for a folder.

Two blades vs. three:

For me this one is easy. Over the years I have had numerous two blade props and have never found one I liked. When I want to use my motor I want a real motor not the feel of an electric trolling motor. With the tidal currents in Maine and the lack of summer winds we often see, having a smooth well balanced three blade prop is a must for us.

I am not one who is afraid to fire up the Japanese genny when the wind dips below 5 knots, especially with an antsy toddler who's ready for some island exploring etc... We also like to venture up some of our many rivers which can have massive currents. Two blade props have never given me a feeling of total confidence, with a small aux motor, in battling head on with these currents.

Which Fixed Prop?:

After lots of research I decided on a Campbell Sailor Prop ("CS" from here forth). I had read many, many, many prop reviews & discussions using the search tool on about 20+ sailing forums, from SBO to SCCA to SailNet, and every one in-between. One thing I noticed was that I had not read much if any negative comments about the CS. So the Campbell Sailor three blade it was.

Ordering:

After consulting with Norm at West By North, the makers of the Campbell Sailor. I ordered a 16"X10X1" RH prop. The prop took about three to four weeks for delivery which was fine due to my off season planning.

Sizing:

Contrary to popular beliefs and misconceptions prop sizing is NOT an exact science. In order to hit max RPM and size the prop to do that without going over or under by much is not easy and often takes two or more attempts to get it spot on. I can remember working with my old friend Brian, a marine surveyor, who always checked the prop sizing against max rated RPM. We found that close to half the boats had the wrong size prop.

The CS prop is EXTREMELY efficient. Norm spec'd mine at 16" diameter X a 10 pitch. I was skeptical at first because my three blade Michigan Wheel was a 16" X 12 pitch which is a lot more aggressive. I could not understand how, with losing so much surface area, I could also reduce pitch? Norm used the Michigan Wheel prop size calculator, which he tweaks for the CS prop design, and decided on the 16X10. Unfortunately when I got the 16X10 it was still over propped and I was under max rated RPM by about 300 RPM. Not good.. Over propping your engine is never a good idea so I wanted to fix this as soon as possible.

Once I discovered the 16X10 was still to aggressive, despite the blade surface area being MUCH smaller than the Michigan Wheel, I called Norm. Norm decided to drop the pitch to a 9 and remove some of the cupping on the trailing edge of the CS props blade.

The customer service Norm provides is stellar! He actually sent me a brand new replacement prop ahead of time so I could literally change out my prop, with the boat still in the slings, and then send the used 16X10 prop back. The 16X9 prop worked flawlessly and I am now within 30 RPM of max rated with a clean bottom and prop.

If you've been paying attention the Campbell Sailor is a full 3 increments of pitch smaller than the Michigan Wheel prop and has far less surface area for less drag through the water. Efficient does not even begin to describe this props unique design. Pitch is basically the theoretical travel a prop makes in one revolution. For example a 10 pitch will theoretically travel 10" in one full revolution provided there is no "slip", but there is almost always slip..

Vibration / Smoothness:

This prop has proven to be the smoothest prop I have ever used or owned on a sailboat. The drive train exhibits no vibration throughout the entire RPM range even at WOT. My Michigan Wheel was tuned and balanced less than one year ago and still could not compete with the smoothness of the CS even on a brand new shaft.

Prop Walk:


Despite the aggressive design of the CS blades the prop displays considerably less prop walk than did the Michigan Wheel. I can not say it has none, but it is noticeably better than the fixed three blade Michigan was.

Drag:

As some of you may know I conducted my own little prop drag study. The results were rather eye opening. The CS prop has about 13 pounds real of drag at about 4.2-4.4 knots while the three blade Michigan Wheel had about 39 pounds of drag at only 4-4.2 knots. For those of you doing the math that is roughly a 200% increase of drag for the Michigan 16X12 than for the CS 16X10. Yes, this is still more drag than a Max-Prop but nowhere near the drag of the Michigan Wheel..

Speed:

I have always run my boat to put the stern wave right at point where my the hull sides and transom meet but without the water climbing up the transom. This puts me at about 6.6-6.8 knots. I used to be at 2400 RPM to do this with the 16X12 Michigan Wheel and am now consistently at about 2250 to do the exact same thing with the CS 16X9. Both props would hit a WOT max rated throttle of 3000 RPM within +/- 30 RPM.

Fuel Use:

I could not decipher any real measurable difference in fuel consumption perhaps because we also have engine driven refrigeration which tends wreck the mathematics of measuring fuel consumption for moving the vessel through the water.

Conclusion:


If you are looking for a rugged, reliable, smooth and efficient fixed three blade prop with less drag than the typical Michigan Wheels, that come standard on most boats, then the Campbell Sailor certainly fits the bill.

While slightly more expensive than a Michigan Wheel it is certainly considerably less than any of the feathering or folders. I think i paid about $540.00 delivered but I'd need to find my credit card statement to be sure..

I waited until I had nearly a full season of use to post this so it could be more accurate and less impulsive. I find if I write something shortly after I buy it I can be admittedly little more biased, in a pro fashion, towards it, then if I wait and use it more. After nearly a full season of use I find I like it even more now than when I initially bought it, perhaps due to the sizing mishap.

Here's a cross sectional comparison of the props unique design comparing the CS to the MW:



Here's a photo of the sheer reduction in surface are which helps result in the 200% reduction in drag between the MW and the CS (13 pounds vs. 39 pounds):


Complaints:

1- I wish the prop was available in NiBrAl... (nibral).. It is manganese bronze..

2- Very few shops can work on these props or properly re-pitch them. None of my local shops will touch it and I wanted to have it run on a Prop Scan or Hale MRI machine for the "ultimate" in balance and smoothness... It's smooth as glass now but I want it as slick & smooth as wet glass.....

3- More drag than a feathering or folding prop.
Faster, T37Chef, rikhall and 1 others like this.
__________________
______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




© Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.



Last edited by Maine Sail; 12-03-2011 at 07:59 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PSC37 Campbell Sailer Prop.. any advice whimbrel Pacific Seacraft 6 10-26-2011 11:24 AM
Sailing: Campbell Cup, Day Two NewsReader News Feeds 0 10-17-2011 01:30 PM
Greasing Hand basin Manual hand pump Frozensurfer Gear & Maintenance 1 05-04-2010 12:53 PM
Campbell Sailer Prop Problems halyardz Gear & Maintenance 1 09-16-2003 06:20 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:54 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012