Noob purchasing and commandeering a sail boat - Page 3 - SailNet Community
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post #21 of 167 Old 12-20-2011
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I would give capn Aaron a good listen. The purchase price of a boat is only a small fraction of it's cost of ownership. Even if you buy a brand new boat, things will break. A definition of a boat is (B).ring (O).n (A).nother (T).housand.

Even if you don't plan on doing any cruising with this boat, (IE you are buying a houseboat). Things will still break that will require fixing to stay afloat. And besides you are buying a sailboat, you will at least want to move it around the lakes. No matter how many surveys you get, and in that price range I would suggest at least a couple.

Some things will be missed. Unless you want your boat to spend a lot of time in the marinas shipyard, (at a cost of $600-$800 haulout, plus $100-$200 per day), you will want to learn to fix them yourself.

You will still need to haulout once or twice per year to replace zincs and fix things under the boat, it costs me $2000 each time). Every few years a new bottom paint will cost several thousand plus the above fees.

Think about how much total financial obligation to are biting off before you decide on a price range. Good luck
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post #22 of 167 Old 12-20-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PsySailor View Post
Ahoy Captains,

My family is poor and I don't know anyone who owns a 40 ft boat who would be willing to help me sail it across Lake Ontario.
As a part of your research, it would be best to calculate your annual cost for the boat- maintenance, haul outs, hull painting, parts replacements, docking, utilities, taxes, insurance, boat registration and any other costs you can think of. Living in an apartment may be cheaper. The upfront cost of $100k is only the begining. Just make sure you do your homework so that you do not end up in the hole if you decide to sell the boat.
Good Luck to you

Last edited by Faster; 12-20-2011 at 02:02 PM. Reason: fixed quote
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post #23 of 167 Old 12-20-2011
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killarney_sailor, I'm not sure what you mean about me not doing my homework since I haven't purchased the boat yet, or paid for the survey yet.

I'm still in touch with some surveyors and I'm shopping around. But I have this part covered.

The part I'm not sure about is finding a marina with space for my size of boat in Lake Ontario. I wasn't aware that I would have any trouble finding a dock for a 40 footer. (I figured the main problem would be finding a marina that allows all-year docking for liveaboard).

This could be a real problem for me...

I was already in-touch with Port Credit. This isn't my first choice, but it's the only marina that I am sure can take me.

However, the lady I spoke to didn't mention anything about a waiting list I could get on---and she also said I couldn't even apply until mid January 2012 since I'm looking for May 1st docking.

Can anyone confirm if this lady has it wrong?

(I really do need to get on a waiting list if there is such a thing. Waiting till January might screw me over?)
Find a couple of marinas you might want to stay at, and ask how many empty 40ft slips they have, if none, ask for length of waiting list, and what liveaboard policies are.

Around here I've found marinas are reluctant to give out this info, but will if pressed. Some simply forbid liveaboard, and restrict how many continuous weeks you are allowed to stay, some may require certain size holding tank, and dockside fittings, and even specify size and type of boat.

Some places like Hawaii, and California have more boaters than dock space. I don't know about Ontario, but in Texas there is about an even number. So you can usually find a slip if patient and look around.

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post #24 of 167 Old 12-20-2011
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Not trying to be a jerk, but how can your family be extremely poor, but you're buying a 130K boat? There is nothing cheap about owning a boat. There will be haul outs, bottom cleanings, bottom painting, replacing canvas and so on. To get that kind of return on that boat after being lived aboard is doubtful. The interior will get beat up while living aboard full time. The cushions and pillows won't make it for sure. Dunno, but sounds like your plan is a tad to optimistic...

It's totally doable what you want to do, but be careful! Good luck!

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post #25 of 167 Old 12-20-2011
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The odds are against you in the "I don't want to spend any money on it in 5 years". Yes,
you're spending a lot of money, but your'e still buying a 7 year old boat with 7 year old systems.
Just because the cost is over 100k, doesn't mean that things won't fail. Heck, they're "expected"
to fail.

Think of it in terms of an automobile; would you be fair to say, "I want to buy a 7 year old
car and not have to spend any major $$ on it for 5 years."? Remember, at the end of your
5 five year term, that's now a 12 year old boat (about to be 13). Also, the fact that you
are planning to do no major maintenance and still want to only take a 5% depreciation per
year is also, "unrealistic". Think about it from your current "buyer's prospective". If someone
offered you the boat you "expect" to have, 12 years old and had no major renovation work
done, for 100k, vs. a 5 year newer boat in near perfect condition for 130k, which one do
you look at?

Oh, and the term "salty" and even, "bluewater" as it pertains to a captain, just speaks to his/her
experience level, with "salty and bluewater proven" being someone you can trust that has tons
of sailing experience. From what I understand, those "Great Lakes" up there can be quite unforgiving
at times and a person can just as easily sink in freshwater as he can in saltwater.
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post #26 of 167 Old 12-20-2011
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Here's my math:
2004 Catalina- in 3 years it will be ten years old, which means that it is reaching the end of the practical life of many components. You are likely the second owner, so you get to do all the stuff that casued the first owner to sell the boat- new sails, or new cushions or new NMEA 2000 electronics or whatever. So, you invest 130 K plus the cost of upgrades and deferred maintenance,... lets call it $150K
In 5 years it is worth 100K- so you are 50 K out of pocket. It's cost you $10K per year to own, plus marina fees.

Or....
Buy a 25 year old well maintained Landfall 38 or similar for $75K Shop around a little and you can find a boat that has been well-maintained with no big bills coming due any time soon. Sell it in five years for $50K.
It's only cost you $5K per year to own, plus marina fees.

Now, take the $55K you didn't spend, and invest it. if it earns only 5% annually, over five years you have $70K, plus any tax benefits.

or, if you are financing that purchase, it cuts your monthly nut in half.


Something to think about.

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post #27 of 167 Old 12-20-2011
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Or, if you're willing to sacrifice a little length and save a lot of money, see if Mike in Thunder Bay still has Elysian up for sale.

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post #28 of 167 Old 12-20-2011 Thread Starter
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Well you guys make some excellent points. In terms of the financial investment, there's probably no question that an older boat wins, but won't I have to do PLENTY of work myself on the boat? What if I don't have the time to master the boat craft? That's my worry...

I wasn't aware that a 7 year old boat is "ready for everything to be replaced". I was under the impression that was 20 years for most boats. Mine's a Catalina, so we'll say 20 years. I was under the impression that you can get 10 years out of sails easily... Especially one like my boat which has barely ever been sailed. It has 200 engine hours... The thing looks to me basically brand new. The rigging all looks brand new to me, the halyards and sheets are bright and colorful and new looking. The sails look 3 years old to me.

I bought my Honda Civic 3 years old, and i've driven it for 3 years, and I have done nothing but an oil change every year.

I was hoping to do the same with my boat. I just need 3 years of no major repairs. I can do a haulout and clean the bottom once a year. I've budgeted $2400 a year in maintenance.

(My family is poor. Meaning that when I was growing up, I never got near a boat. But I have an office job that pays $65k per year and a fiancee who earns $50k per year. And we're looking to make our first home out of a boat.)

I should perhaps do some more research into an older boat in terms of financial benifit. But I seriously doubt an older boat will make me as happy to live upon. Plus, I'm not much of a mechanic. If anything busts, I'll be paying out my ass to fix it. At least for the first couple of years until I have taken all the courses I am planning to take, and have read all the books I plan to read...
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Let's not complicate the issue. Obviously nobody can say how much $ I'll need to put into my boat to keep it floating over the next 3 years.

Let's assume that my judgement is correct, and the boat I'm buying at $130k will only need $2400 per year for the next 5 years to keep it in tip-top shape.

With that assumption, does anyone think I'm making a terrible mistake? Could I get a 40 footer with pressure water, propane stove, modern electronics, 7 year old sails (barely used), at least 12 foot beam, shower with door, under 5 foot draft, large completely sheltered cockpit, an engine that has another 20 thousand hours left on it before it's likely to need replacement, and plenty of stowage space, for under $130k?

If yes, then I need to hear about this deal!
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post #30 of 167 Old 12-20-2011
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Quote:
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Let's not complicate the issue. Obviously nobody can say how much $ I'll need to put into my boat to keep it floating over the next 3 years.

Let's assume that my judgement is correct, and the boat I'm buying at $130k will only need $2400 per year for the next 5 years to keep it in tip-top shape.

With that assumption, does anyone think I'm making a terrible mistake? Could I get a 40 footer with pressure water, propane stove, modern electronics, 7 year old sails (barely used), at least 12 foot beam, shower with door, under 5 foot draft, large completely sheltered cockpit, an engine that has another 20 thousand hours left on it before it's likely to need replacement, and plenty of stowage space, for under $130k?

If yes, then I need to hear about this deal!
Based on market, sounds like you have a good deal:
2004 catalina (Sail) Boats For Sale

and you have the income to support it. Just double check the expense numbers and go for it.
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