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  #101  
Old 12-22-2003
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Firearms

For those who have written there really is no such thing as freedom, remember if everyone was free to do what they pleased, one man would be free to shoot the man standing next to him on a whim. But then the other man has only the freedom to die. Is this total freedom? For everyone? Freedom must be a shared endeavor.

Governments, at their best, enact laws to provide the grease for society to reduce the friction between us so that we can coexist and get along better. Maybe no country is doing it perfectly, but some do it better than others.

What bothers me more than the erosion of freedoms in this society is the lack of respect people show for the freedoms they have.

Chas
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  #102  
Old 12-22-2003
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Firearms

I wish more people would get energized about the real erosion of freedoms in this country like the ever-shrinking right to privacy or free speech. If we could get every citizen as concerned about these things as are the morons who think that having to register their 9mm semi-auto assault pistol represents a loss of freedom, then we wouldn''t be burdened with a Patriot Act, homeland security or the plethora of other conservative agenda items that make this country seem more facist every day.
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  #103  
Old 12-23-2003
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I wonder what people think "privacy" means. Clearly, it''s an oxymoron to think you can have privacy while you''re in public. If you are in public where people and police officers can see you, then what''s the big deal if a survailance camera sees you?

The right to bear arms (by a well regulated militia in the USA [look it up]) is covered in our Constitution. However, laws have been passed to protect society from those proven to be a danger to it or incapable of being responsible gun users. Those regulations seem reasonable to reasonable people, including Supreme Court Justices.

Regarding "Freedom of Speech - Remeber you cna say whatever you want so long as it doesn''t lead to a potentially harmful situation. "Yelling fire in a theatre when there isn''t one" is usually cited as a case where what you say could cause a panic, and therefore you don''t have a right to say it. You also don''t have the right to verbally assault, libel or slander anyone. Thus, it is clear that from the very start "Freedom of Speech" has had limitations.

Lastly, I happen to agree with those who think the Patriot Act has in some ways erroded the liberties protected in the Constitution. I think the courts will overturn the portions of that Act dealing with "Due Process". Clearly, the standard should remain "Innocent till proven guilty". Presently, a person (even a citizen) can be detained indefinitely if the Government thinks he/she is a "terrorist". That sounds very much like a modern version of "McCarthyism".

Getting back to the original post - protect yourself by whatever means necessary, but be ready to suffer the consequences of your decision.

~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~
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  #104  
Old 12-23-2003
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Firearms

I find it funny that in the same breath one would talk about "real" rights like privacy and then about how someone needs to quit worrying if he''s asked to register his means of defence with the government. Think about it for a second.

As for the right to keep and bear arms, the exact wording is thus:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Look at this in context. The PEOPLE of the English colony of America got together and formed a well regulated milita to stand agianst an opressive government and hence secure a free state. This is not a group who wanted to hand over all their power to the government. This is a people who wanted to ensure that the government was kept in check. Then agian, now that we have the Supreme court destroying the union of states (since 53) and making everything the fed, we need to accept that everything is going to change. Slowly, in the name of security for all, we''re losing all our rights. I''m going sailing, before I need governmental permission to do so.

-- James
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  #105  
Old 12-23-2003
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I said nothing about gun registration. However, I don''t think it unwise to require folks to allow the Government to do a background check to ensure they are not felons, or mentally incapable of handling a gun. We all know, there are enough unstable folks with guns already. We don''t need to allow every lunatic the "Right to bear arms". Felons may still be able to get guns (illegally), but the government shouldn''t make it easy to do so.

Also, I don''t agree that the Supreme Court has tried to make everything "Fed". On the contrary, many rulings supporting states rights have been upheld since 1953. The ruling that have gone against states have involved issues that could have one state having laws that violate laws of another state. Clearly, the Feds have a duty to ensure that all states maintain consistent statutes.

As it stands now, you cannot just build or buy a boat and go sailing anytime you want. The boat must be registered with the state in which it is berthed. That registration is, in effect, a permission-slip allowing the owner to operate the boat in the state''s waters. The Feds (USCG) will accept that permission to extend into Federal waters, but have the right to revoke it if they feel they have justification to do so.

These rules that impinge on your freedom were established by the majority in the society in which we live. We have legal recourse to try to change rules we don''t like, but in the end, the Courts make the decision, not us. If you don''t like the system, you are free to leave and find one you like better or establish your own country where you can make the laws. Good luck!

~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~
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  #106  
Old 12-23-2003
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Sorry, I should have been more clear. The part about gun registration was directed at Fstbttms.

As for the states rights, in education and (your gonna hate this, I know I did) the first ammendment, they made the decisions fed. here''s some bg info if you''d like.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment01/01.html#3

While moraly I agree with the protection, I find it scary when the supreme court decides to interpret laws in a way that is expressly DENIED in the writing. When the Supreme Court empowers itself that way, the checks and ballances go away and we''re left at the mercy of a 9 man olgarcy. neep!

That being said, by finding fault (and voting and helping to campaign) in a manner that helps support positive change, I think I''m doing nothing less than my patriotic duty. I dont think that a disagreement with the way things are going is half as unamerican and destructive to our way of life as blind conformity (or blind rebelion)

That ALSO being said, I do have every plan of taking some more travels, starting in March as a matter of fact to see how things are run in the rest of the world.

So now sir, you and I may both have our respective cakes, and eat them too.

BTW, Merry Christmas, Happy Hanuka, Joyfull Kwanzaa, and have a downright groovy Ramadan

-- James
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  #107  
Old 12-24-2003
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First off I do not need to use a spell checker. Mabe you need me to or would like me to, But I do not need to.

Now it is ofaly easy to just through stuff out there about druck driving or sailing drunk, I feel it was quite clear that I was not talking about eather. But if twisting some one elses words is the only way you can find fule for your week argument I guess you must do so. And I do understand that a helmet law might help so that the population as a whole dosent have to ber, the undo expenses of a person on life suport. But it should not be sociatys right to take that fredom away from outhers. Lets just cary it a littal further. Children are fixed at child berth, Once thay prove to the state that thay would make good parent, the state will revers it. How dose that sound. It is just a littal more extream than what you are asking for. But it is on the same guide lines. Obviously you could go on and on about this. The simple truth is that more and more of our rights ar disapering, It has already gon to far. And it is not getting any better.

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  #108  
Old 12-24-2003
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You''re right, you don''t need to use a spell checker, but you''d be wise to do so. The poor spelling is only part of the problem. Mostly, it''s hard to understand what you''re trying to say due to so many words being mistyped, misused, missing or incomplete.

If you look at your message, you were the one who said it should be alright to drive or sail while drinking alcohol. I wonder if you''d still say that if a drunk driver or sailor crashed his car or boat into yours. :^(

Bottom line - we all have the freedom to do whatever we want whenever we want so long as it doesn''t infringe on anyone else''s rights and liberties. For example - your right to throw a punch at me ends before it makes contact. (Actually, you don''t have a right to threaten me.) You can have the right to drive without a seatbelt if you can GAURANTEE if involved in an accident and need medical care, you won''t cost society a red-cent.

In case you didn''t get the gist - "Freedom" comes with a price, responsibilities and many limitations. It always has in "civilized societies". If you think it shouldn''t then start your own society where you can set the rules - if any. ;^)

~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~
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  #109  
Old 12-24-2003
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Firearms

As I read this thread, an old saying comes to mind....never have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

So far, you have given two concise and accurate observations. It seems obvious that any further attempt to clarify the subject is not only futile, but also more fuel for a fire that should have died out long ago. When someone confuses freedom with anarchy, there is no explaining either to them.

Fair winds,

John
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  #110  
Old 12-24-2003
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>First off I do not need to use a spell checker. Mabe you need me to or would like me to, But I do not need to.<

Think again. Not only does your terrible spelling make it difficult for others to read your posts but it reflects on your intelligence (fairly or not) and therefore the validity of your arguement. I''m not saying you''re stupid, but with language skills as poor as yours and your unwillingness to even make an attempt at literacy, it''s easy to dismiss your arguements as those of an uneducated backwoods bumpkin. Do us all a favor and spell-check your posts.

BTW- Merry Christmas, everyone. ;-)
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