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  #31  
Old 10-01-2003
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Firearms

GordMay,

When I sail my boat single-handed offshore, I carry a pistol grip, police style 12 gauge shotgun in my cockpit locker for “sharks.” It doesn’t require a lot of aiming. My first course of action regarding a suspicious looking boat approaching me is to watch them through my binoculars. If I feel like something isn’t right, my shotgun is in my lap, in full view as they approach. The gun is loaded, and the safety will be off. Not much of a welcoming invite you might say. Well, I believe we live in a dangerous world my friend. Most criminals understand the concept of a 12 gauge shotgun and are not willing to take the chance that they won’t be hit at close range. I believe honest boaters will understand preventative measures in open water, but if not, so be it. When I’m out in open water in an unfamiliar area, no one comes on board my boat. Someone might say, “what about emergencies,etc.” To that I say, “What if the cow really did jump over the moon?” You obviously have to use your own judgment. As far as the single-handed guy off the Mexican coast, IMO, he made two major mistakes. (1) He assumed he was dealing with rational people. The Caribbean, Bahamas, and other favorite locales of cruisers, are unfortunately areas known for high drug trafficking. Most criminals, when not “on the job” have been known to consume massive amounts of alcohol, and drugs. (2) He went down below while having complete strangers tied up to his boat,in an area he wasn''t accustomed to.If someone that I didn''t trust were to ask me for supplies out in open water, I would oblige them if I could, but they would first have to place several boat lengths between them and myself, and then I would leave the supplies floating for them. If that isn’t possible, then I guess it’s just not their lucky day.If the single-handed sailor would of had a planned safety routine that he followed when strangers approached him in open water, he might not have got his throat cut and lost all of his possessions. Maybe, maybe not? Let me reiterate here that I don’t suggest that my methods are the best. You can place all kinds of “what if” scenarios here and I’m sure that some will question my methods. The bottom line though, is that I don’t let anyone on my boat in open water, and I go by what works for me. If I’m out gunned by some frigging pirates with a cannon on board, then that’s just the way it goes down. I’ll take my chances. The question of using lethal force is a sensitive subject, and I don’t know that there is one correct answer. I do what I believe is right for me, and I respect what others feel is right for them.
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  #32  
Old 10-01-2003
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Firearms

DuaneIsing:
I''d be interseted in hearing your response to my ''sarcastic'' post.

Stede:
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. We (generally) disagree on this subject; but I benefit from hearing a point of view that''s somewhat foreign to my preconcieved philosophy.
We share a starting point. The single-hander''s first mistake (at least in hindsight) was allowing strangers, unattended, on his boat.
Then, our philosophies diverge: I don''t have time to man my cockpit, shotgun in hand, waiting (& prepared) for trouble. I went cruising to escape the ******** rampant in modern North American city life., and try hard not to bring it with me.
I DO know that there are bad people out there.
I suspect that they are too bad for me deal with, if they pick me.

To anyone offended by my previouse post: Satire is funnier when it''s directed at others.

Let us make our arguments forcefully, as they represent our considered thought on an important subject. Let us, also, not be offended by emphatic counter-argument.

Respectfully,
Gord
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  #33  
Old 10-01-2003
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Firearms

I think the original question was "should" one carry weapons for self-defense? Any objections I have are either technical or legal, not moral.

For example, what type of armament is most useful and how should it be employed? Should it be carried visibly on the lap, as suggested, or tucked out of sight as a suspicious-looking boat approaches?

And from a legal standpoint, is my life and that of my wife likely to be made better or worse by having a weapon aboard when foreign officials inspect the boat?

I don''t know, but my guess is that shotguns and bolt action rifles will represent less of a risk than semi-automatic firearms, especially large-magazine ones.

As an aside, 30 years ago, a friend of mine returned from the BWI and told of a cruiser he was sailing with down there who, once in open water, pulled out a belt-fed shotgun and mounted it on a stauntion. He said he would fire it on the waterline of an attacking vessel if necessary. Also, he said that it was illegal but that the laws weren''t strictly enforced; again, "better judged by 12..."

I wonder if cruisers today can be so cavalier in foreign waters. Has anyone out there had any experience with this?

Chas
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  #34  
Old 10-02-2003
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GordMay wrote: DuaneIsing, I''d be interseted in hearing your response to my ''sarcastic'' post.

Gord,

I had grown accustomed to well reasoned, civil posts from you at all times, then you posted that "sarcastic" (or is it satirical?) message which seemed so unlike you. That was going to be my main comment in reply.

I was then starting to ask why you had the apparently narrow perception you expressed about how foreign countries can''t be allowed to hinder our American rights, etc., etc. Right about then it hit me that it was so absurd, you HAD to be joking to make a point.

''Nuff said. Regards,

Duane

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Old 10-02-2003
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Signed,

Sir Peter Blake
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  #37  
Old 10-02-2003
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To all you Brave Men & Women.
Well, I can see that I`ve really stirred the pot on this one. It was very interesting to see the amount of passive coments stated. We all must decide on weather or not we carry arms on our boats. We also will choose weather we declare them or not or maybe declare one but not all. Just like the people who invade our boats, we also take a chance on if we are to survive the outcome. We all will use our best judgement on how to deal with would be pirates. My hope is that none of us have to terms on this subject,but you just never know. I think it`s best to be prepared for the situation both mentaly and physicaly. Each situation will require a different resolve. If they are beggers, then help them out if you can and keep a watchful eye. If they intend to inflict bodly harm, then you have a difficult choice to make. You also must decide to report it, or leave no trace. Perhaps send a message to the other Pirates out thier as to what`s expected if they they choose to continue their profession. I know that this seems to be a little Rambo-ish but extreme situation require extreme resolve. Good luck to all and thanks for the chat.
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  #38  
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Tsenator,(WhotHeSaid)

You obviously have no respect for the dead,or you wouldn''t be trying to speak for someone that can no longer speak for himself.Apparently you''re unsure of your own views,or you wouldn''t be hiding behind a false-identity to post them. Step out like like a man to state your views,or don''t step out at all.
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  #39  
Old 10-02-2003
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Island Chied asked for info about Peter Blake:

Good coverage of the piracy event and Blake''s life:

<a href=''http://www.latitude38.com/features/Blake.htm'' target=''_blank''>http://www.latitude38.com/features/Blake.htm</a>

In preceeding, note this:

Tragically, Blake''s decision to defend his boat and crew probably precipitated his death. "If Peter did not arm himself, this maybe would not have happened," said a spokesman for the Brazilian federal police. "The robbers would have taken the objects and left it at that."

And a follow-up:
<a href=''http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1697358.stm'' target=''_blank''>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1697358.stm</a>

Note that the bastards were able to argue "self-defence". What a world.

bw
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We''ve discussed this at length at home. Since we intend to eventually visit other countries, we have decided that we won''t be armed with any sort of firearm that could cause further delays in clearing customs, or worse legal matters.

If we should be unlucky enough to be boarded by pirates, we think it''s better to let them take whatever, and hope they spare our lives.

Besides, I don''t want the extra hastle of having to clean a gun on a frequent basis (salt air is hard on ferrous metals). I''d rather spend that time making friends. ;^)

~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~
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