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  #31  
Old 12-11-2011
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Newby mistake bought a 25 poptop (not cool)..... moved upto a nice 27' but ready to liveaboard a 34 to ? found a 38' I LOVE just need $45000.00 can you spare it?
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  #32  
Old 12-11-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killarney_sailor View Post
Interesting responses and pretty much what I anticipated. I think that in 20 (or more years) most of the quality boats of today (that may already be 30+ years old) will be around and probably in good condition since they have doting owners. My understanding of the used boat market today is that there are relatively few used boats less than 10 years old (not a surprise since the number of new boats being sold 10 years ago was not high) and lots of boats from the 1970s to 1980s, that are proving to be hard to sell. In 2030, there could be a lot of boats for sale that are 50 to 60 years old and still going strong - and still not many relatively new boats because a quality boat today is so costly. The nearest comparitor to my boat that I could find in new market (and it is not perfect, but both cruising boats of similar displacement) was the Island Packet 46 (or thereabouts) and it was something over $700,000.

Combine this with Paulo's European perspective and it is quite interesting.

Another comment regarding European Market:

The importance Europeans give to more modern boats has nothing to do with the one given by Americans. The difference is so big that many Americans consider that a 20 year's old designed boat can be better than a modern designed boat. This kind of thought would be unthinkable to an European that values all the improvements racing has brought to sailboats and not only racing but interior design.

If an European is wealthy enough it will trade its boat when it is 4 to 6 years old, if it is not that wealthy but has the money for a new boat, each 6 to 10 years and only a very small minority among those who can buy a new boat, will maintain his boat more than 10 years.

Basically this shows several things:

That people want to benefice from the latest improvements in boat: hull rig and interior design (the one that race the boats are among the ones that keep their boats less time).

That the ones that can has no desire in losing time doing boat maintenance.

That an old boat gives no status

That's why you find so many European 10 year old boats on the Market.

Well, things are changing, crisis and all, but if the development model that brought us to the point we are today (consumerism/capitalism model) went on as on the last 20 years I think that in some years you would not have here a market for 30 or 40 year's old boats. Nobody would want them because the price of their maintenance and marina costs would be so high that would not compensate the trouble and the inconveniences of having an old boat with a very outdated design and less efficient design.

Of course, some exceptions will apply, like very special and expensive boats that we can consider classics an that will reward its owners with status and prestige. It would not be different with the market car: Who wants to own a 30 year's old car (and pay it's expensive maintenance) if he can have a new model? Only if that old car is a prestige Jaguar, Rools-Royce or something like that. Those will retain value if not the same comfort of a new model from the same segment and will not be used every-day but only on special occasions.

A final comment between European and American market: On Europe sailboat market is a main market in what regards sailboats, meaning that the ones that have money to buy them new want them. On the United States it is a very secondary market meaning that the ones that have money to buy them would buy a motor boat instead.

This explains why on the Europe there is a large percentage of boats with less than 10 years while on the US they are quite few. Someone has pointed out on another thread that it seems to be changing on the US, I mean with prestige advertisements with sailboats as scenery. Well, that would give me a big satisfaction. That would not also boost the boat market as the global interest in sailing that is much higher in Europe than in states and that means more sponsors for racing and boat development.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 12-11-2011 at 10:10 AM.
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  #33  
Old 12-11-2011
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My observations visiting relatives in Holland back that all up, Paulo.... no one drives old cars, no one would be caught dead buying used furniture..there's a great deal of weight given to one's appearance of status in all things.
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  #34  
Old 12-11-2011
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Hey Andrews,

Regarding selling your boat to have a motorboat, you can always have a Bavaria instead

They are putting this system on their boats (0.45s):

4 systèmes innovants pour un accastillage plus performant

As I have told you, just push the button

Regards

Paulo
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  #35  
Old 12-11-2011
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Just bought our 39 year old ferro, she's yard built and solid.
I intend to live on her for at least 30 years, and suspect that if I maintain her that she will go on for at least 60 years!
Ferros last beyond a lifetime if you get a good one!
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  #36  
Old 12-11-2011
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we'll bend with the wind....

for us it will probably depend on the future and possible/probable grandkids. Our Cal-30 is fine for us but I suspect could get a bit crowded down the way but who knows? We are keeping our 5 kayaks so maybe THEY can paddle, WE can sail, they can tarp/hammock out on an island, we'll take the spacious v-berth.
We'll need to replace some sails in a couple of years but the original A4 is still running fine. We are truly blessed to have a 1967 boat still in good shape.
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  #37  
Old 12-12-2011
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Just a comment.
Here in the US with the environmental regulations and permit requirements it seems that not many more boat moorings/ slips/ docks can be built (could be wrong on this). So what will happen. You have all these old boats taking up all the available dock space and new yacht builders wanting to sell new boats, but no place for owners to put them. I would think the same thing would be going on in Europe. Many boats it seems could last 100 years given some decent maintenance. So what gives? Seems a major hold up in selling new boats would be where is someone going to keep it. How is the mooring availability on the mainland us (here in hawaii about the only moorings available are at state harbors and they have a 5 year waiting list) and what is availability like in Europe?

BTW boat is a 1978 S&S 34, plan to keep her as long as I can sail her then give her to my kids (if they are interested). She should last as long as fiberglass hull lasts- say maybe 100 years. She is pretty simple to maintain as she is so basic.

Regards
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  #38  
Old 12-12-2011
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I think Hawaii may be a different situation than many areas. Certainly most marinas and yacht clubs on Lake Ontario have space - just waiting for a new (or old) boat to appear. I think the problem with new boats is that they just cost too much for the average person. We could not have considered going cruising if we had to buy a new(ish) boat to do it.
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  #39  
Old 12-12-2011
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I love my boat and would never replace her. New designs leave me cold.
With epoxy a boat will last forever to say nothing of the teak and bronze.
I don't think modern boats can become heirlooms due to their lightness of build.
If I get to old to sail I'll get an electric launch. I have a torqeedo powered skiff that is the next best thing to sailing.
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  #40  
Old 12-12-2011
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My current boat will certainly outlast me and my ability to sail her. Foredecks are not good for walkers!
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