Cold water, bad position given

ewoden · #1 12-20-2011

Apologies if this has already been discussed...

The Bay in December is not to be trifled with, it is cold enough to kill. The importance of everyone on board knowing the position of the craft is illustrated in this tragedy.

Crews search for missing Chesapeake Bay boater; 2 others recovered but 1 unresponsive - The Washington Post

dhays · #2 12-20-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewoden

Apologies if this has already been discussed...

The Bay in December is not to be trifled with, it is cold enough to kill. The importance of everyone on board knowing the position of the craft is illustrated in this tragedy.

So what would you and others recommend for ensuring that all aboard know the correct position? The obvious solution of course is to have an MMSI equipped radio that is connected to a working GPS as well as having a registered MMSI entered into the radio. I readily admit that while I have an MMSI capable radio, I don't yet have it connected to my GPS nor have I yet registered an MMSI for Legacy.

Other than that, regular crew should be aware of position information. In the inland waters that we sail the most, my wife knows exactly where we are, and could navigate back to our home port if she had to. However, that is different than being able to accurately describe a location, something that she would have a hard time doing in many cases.

BTW. where we sai, going in the water at any time of year is a hazardous experience due to the cold water.

kd3pc · #3 12-20-2011

Sorry to be a buzzkill, but having that information be readily available would likely made NO difference in the outcome....even knowing "I am 2 nautical miles north, northwest of the west side of the bay bridge" ....because survival for perhaps 30 minutes in the water is all that could be readily expected, without a decent wet/drysuit...response time to an emergency call is at least 10-12 minutes, getting a boat or resque swimmer in the water another 10-12...see what I mean.

I believe the older fellow passed yesterday. Sadly the other younger fellow has as well.

The best preventative is a capable sailor on an appropriate boat for the weather conditions expected, anything less is ...expecting a miracle resque.

ewoden · #4 12-20-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by kd3pc

Sorry to be a buzzkill, but having that information be readily available would likely made NO difference in the outcome....even knowing "I am 2 nautical miles north, northwest of the west side of the bay bridge" ....because survival for perhaps 30 minutes in the water is all that could be readily expected, without a decent wet/drysuit...response time to an emergency call is at least 10-12 minutes, getting a boat or resque swimmer in the water another 10-12...see what I mean.

I believe the older fellow passed yesterday. Sadly the other younger fellow has as well.

The best preventative is a capable sailor on an appropriate boat for the weather conditions expected, anything less is ...expecting a miracle resque.

Well I read the report that they were extracted from the water a full hour after receiving the mayday (by 911 cell phone call no less)to indicate that the rescue might have been more within the survival window had the initial position delivered been accurate. The fact that authorities indicated that incorrect postiion data were provided and that the rescue vessels had to search for some time to find the folks in the water suggests to me that more accurate might have resulted in a beter outcome.

I am wondering about your last statement...what was the nature of the vessel and the nature of the loss of the boat as you understand it that indicates the vessel/skipper were not up to the conditions?

kd3pc · #5 12-20-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewoden

I am wondering about your last statement...what was the nature of the vessel and the nature of the loss of the boat as you understand it that indicates the vessel/skipper were not up to the conditions?

The 911 call was from a female victim who said “her vehicle was sinking,”...tells me she was a rookie. And that the boat took some amount of "time" to actually sink.

The boat was a Precisions 18, not exactly an open dinghy, but if the swing keel was not down...it is reported to have "sunk" in 40' of water. Or if the boards were not in and the companion way open, she would take water

Winds were 12-18 knots at the time...again a bit much for "wet sailing" this time of year.

Most dinghy/wet sailing sailors, even in the summer wear wet/dry suits to keep "warm" in the event they get dunked. These folks did not.

Please, please understand, I was not there, but I just don't see how knowing your position would have shortened the time for a boat to get in the water and to them. Even if the coast guard hustled, you are still 30 minutes from Annapolis....a long time in 40 degree water....

My thoughts are with the families and hope that she makes a full recovery.

tommays · #6 12-20-2011

I am sorry it ended badly for them BUT right now if you out sailing without a drysuit on your willing to roll the dice that no mistakes will happen or nothing will fail

Up here right now no weekend event will happen without crash boats and most require drysuits due to the short amount of time you will be able to help yourself when wet

zz4gta · #7 12-20-2011

This had nothing to do with the boat (unless we're speculating) as we don't know anything about it, other than it has not been recovered and it was a Precision 18.

Weather wasn't out of the ordinary, especially for this time of year. Reports are anywhere from 15 gusting to 25. A wild ride, but should not have been life threatening.

Time is always important. PFDs are more important. If you go in not wearing a PFD, your legs an arms stop working and you sink. Go in w/ a PFD, legs and arms stop working, but you float, and get another 2 hours of survival.

It surprises most people how long the human body can survive in cold water if all they have to do is float.

http://boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/hypothermia.htm

kd3pc · #8 12-20-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by zz4gta

This had nothing to do with the boat (unless we're speculating) as we don't know anything about it, other than it has not been recovered and it was a Precision 18.

did not mean to impune the boat... nor speculate....

my comment was in response to the OP, on my 42 it would have been an easy sail...on a small, mostly open daysailor...not as easy...

jackdale · #9 12-20-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by zz4gta

PFDs are more important. If you go in not wearing a PFD, your legs an arms stop working and you sink. Go in w/ a PFD, legs and arms stop working, but you float, and get another 2 hours of survival.

+1

I would also recommend Dr. Popsicle (Gordon Giesbrecht) website Cold Water Boot Camp

BarryL · #10 12-20-2011

Hey,

From the article:
The sailboat wasn’t immediately recovered. Authorities say all three boaters were wearing lifejackets.

So I guess it just took too long to find them. In this case, I don't know if a DSC radio would have helped. If the boat gets knocked down and sinks, the radio won't be able to broadcast.

Barry