Cold water, bad position given - SailNet Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 13 Old 12-20-2011 Thread Starter
Member
 
ewoden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Marykand
Posts: 45
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Cold water, bad position given

Apologies if this has already been discussed...

The Bay in December is not to be trifled with, it is cold enough to kill. The importance of everyone on board knowing the position of the craft is illustrated in this tragedy.

Crews search for missing Chesapeake Bay boater; 2 others recovered but 1 unresponsive - The Washington Post

A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for.
William Shedd
ewoden is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 Old 12-20-2011
Senior Member
 
dhays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: University Place, WA
Posts: 630
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ewoden View Post
Apologies if this has already been discussed...

The Bay in December is not to be trifled with, it is cold enough to kill. The importance of everyone on board knowing the position of the craft is illustrated in this tragedy.
So what would you and others recommend for ensuring that all aboard know the correct position? The obvious solution of course is to have an MMSI equipped radio that is connected to a working GPS as well as having a registered MMSI entered into the radio. I readily admit that while I have an MMSI capable radio, I don't yet have it connected to my GPS nor have I yet registered an MMSI for Legacy.

Other than that, regular crew should be aware of position information. In the inland waters that we sail the most, my wife knows exactly where we are, and could navigate back to our home port if she had to. However, that is different than being able to accurately describe a location, something that she would have a hard time doing in many cases.

BTW. where we sai, going in the water at any time of year is a hazardous experience due to the cold water.

47*20'11.7" N
122*35'20.8" W
S/V Legacy, Catalina 400 MkII, Hull #328
My Blog on
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
dhays is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 13 Old 12-20-2011
Senior Member
 
kd3pc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Callao, VA
Posts: 1,383
Thanks: 0
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Sorry to be a buzzkill, but having that information be readily available would likely made NO difference in the outcome....even knowing "I am 2 nautical miles north, northwest of the west side of the bay bridge" ....because survival for perhaps 30 minutes in the water is all that could be readily expected, without a decent wet/drysuit...response time to an emergency call is at least 10-12 minutes, getting a boat or resque swimmer in the water another 10-12...see what I mean.

I believe the older fellow passed yesterday. Sadly the other younger fellow has as well.

The best preventative is a capable sailor on an appropriate boat for the weather conditions expected, anything less is ...expecting a miracle resque.
kd3pc is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 13 Old 12-20-2011 Thread Starter
Member
 
ewoden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Marykand
Posts: 45
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kd3pc View Post
Sorry to be a buzzkill, but having that information be readily available would likely made NO difference in the outcome....even knowing "I am 2 nautical miles north, northwest of the west side of the bay bridge" ....because survival for perhaps 30 minutes in the water is all that could be readily expected, without a decent wet/drysuit...response time to an emergency call is at least 10-12 minutes, getting a boat or resque swimmer in the water another 10-12...see what I mean.

I believe the older fellow passed yesterday. Sadly the other younger fellow has as well.

The best preventative is a capable sailor on an appropriate boat for the weather conditions expected, anything less is ...expecting a miracle resque.
Well I read the report that they were extracted from the water a full hour after receiving the mayday (by 911 cell phone call no less)to indicate that the rescue might have been more within the survival window had the initial position delivered been accurate. The fact that authorities indicated that incorrect postiion data were provided and that the rescue vessels had to search for some time to find the folks in the water suggests to me that more accurate might have resulted in a beter outcome.

I am wondering about your last statement...what was the nature of the vessel and the nature of the loss of the boat as you understand it that indicates the vessel/skipper were not up to the conditions?

A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for.
William Shedd
ewoden is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 13 Old 12-20-2011
Senior Member
 
kd3pc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Callao, VA
Posts: 1,383
Thanks: 0
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ewoden View Post

I am wondering about your last statement...what was the nature of the vessel and the nature of the loss of the boat as you understand it that indicates the vessel/skipper were not up to the conditions?
The 911 call was from a female victim who said “her vehicle was sinking,”...tells me she was a rookie. And that the boat took some amount of "time" to actually sink.

The boat was a Precisions 18, not exactly an open dinghy, but if the swing keel was not down...it is reported to have "sunk" in 40' of water. Or if the boards were not in and the companion way open, she would take water

Winds were 12-18 knots at the time...again a bit much for "wet sailing" this time of year.

Most dinghy/wet sailing sailors, even in the summer wear wet/dry suits to keep "warm" in the event they get dunked. These folks did not.

Please, please understand, I was not there, but I just don't see how knowing your position would have shortened the time for a boat to get in the water and to them. Even if the coast guard hustled, you are still 30 minutes from Annapolis....a long time in 40 degree water....

My thoughts are with the families and hope that she makes a full recovery.
kd3pc is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 13 Old 12-20-2011
Senior Member
 
tommays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,296
Thanks: 1
Thanked 30 Times in 30 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
I am sorry it ended badly for them BUT right now if you out sailing without a drysuit on your willing to roll the dice that no mistakes will happen or nothing will fail

Up here right now no weekend event will happen without crash boats and most require drysuits due to the short amount of time you will be able to help yourself when wet

1970 Cal 29 Sea Fever

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1981 J24 Tangent 2930
Tommays
Northport NY


If a dirty bottom slows you down what do you think it does to your boat
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by tommays; 12-20-2011 at 04:12 PM.
tommays is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 13 Old 12-20-2011
I don't discuss my member
 
zz4gta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Posts: 2,529
Thanks: 0
Thanked 31 Times in 31 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
This had nothing to do with the boat (unless we're speculating) as we don't know anything about it, other than it has not been recovered and it was a Precision 18.

Weather wasn't out of the ordinary, especially for this time of year. Reports are anywhere from 15 gusting to 25. A wild ride, but should not have been life threatening.

Time is always important. PFDs are more important. If you go in not wearing a PFD, your legs an arms stop working and you sink. Go in w/ a PFD, legs and arms stop working, but you float, and get another 2 hours of survival.

It surprises most people how long the human body can survive in cold water if all they have to do is float.


http://boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/hypothermia.htm

Merit 25 # 764 "Audrey"
zz4gta is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 13 Old 12-20-2011
Senior Member
 
kd3pc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Callao, VA
Posts: 1,383
Thanks: 0
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zz4gta View Post
This had nothing to do with the boat (unless we're speculating) as we don't know anything about it, other than it has not been recovered and it was a Precision 18.
did not mean to impune the boat... nor speculate....

my comment was in response to the OP, on my 42 it would have been an easy sail...on a small, mostly open daysailor...not as easy...
kd3pc is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 13 Old 12-20-2011
Senior Member
 
jackdale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 9,028
Thanks: 27
Thanked 59 Times in 56 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zz4gta View Post
PFDs are more important. If you go in not wearing a PFD, your legs an arms stop working and you sink. Go in w/ a PFD, legs and arms stop working, but you float, and get another 2 hours of survival.
+1

I would also recommend Dr. Popsicle (Gordon Giesbrecht) website Cold Water Boot Camp

__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203, 204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 13 Old 12-20-2011
Senior Member
 
BarryL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,792
Thanks: 4
Thanked 43 Times in 38 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Hey,


From the article:
The sailboat wasn’t immediately recovered. Authorities say all three boaters were wearing lifejackets.

So I guess it just took too long to find them. In this case, I don't know if a DSC radio would have helped. If the boat gets knocked down and sinks, the radio won't be able to broadcast.

Barry

Barry Lenoble
Deep Blue C, 2002 C&C 110
Mt. Sinai, NY

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
BarryL is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cold Water Boot Camp jackdale General Discussion (sailing related) 12 05-07-2010 11:45 PM
Great Video on cold water survival davidpm Seamanship & Navigation 5 12-11-2009 10:55 AM
Cold Water Survival Stories ArgleBargle General Discussion (sailing related) 2 09-23-2009 04:01 PM
Cold water poured on tanker plan (The Herald) NewsReader News Feeds 0 05-17-2006 11:15 PM
Hot and cold water tubing KenD Gear & Maintenance 5 02-17-2006 09:51 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome