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  #1  
Old 12-21-2011
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Spinnaker Rigging

I am replacing my lost spinnaker guys and sheets.

Previously, my sheets and guys attached to the clews with seperate, rather large and heavy snap shackles which really weighed the light air sail down and became weapons in heavier air. The clews are pretty bulky need at least Ronstan RF6220 to close easily.

I am considering the following alternatives:

1. Eye splicing the sheet and guy to a single snap shackle.

2. Using the original set-up but with a large shackle attached to the clew for the sheet and a second smaller shackle snapped to the others bail for the guy.

3. Deleting the guy altogether and using a twinge on the sheet as a guy.

The boat is 34', masthead rigged and must be end-for-end jibed due to the baby stay.

Any opinions?
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Old 12-21-2011
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If you're end-for-ending I don't really see the need for double sheets and guys, though it would give you the opportunity to gibe an unloaded pole..

On our last boat (40') dip poling we used sheet/guy combos on a single shackle. It worked fine but pretty much meant a trip forward to blow the guy at the shackle. The advantage would be no sheet/guy drag on the takedown.

Using single sheet and guy, if you have a single trip line for the pole jaws, then you can release both ends simultaneously as you begin the gibe, flying the sail free from the single sheet/guy, then the only real load you might get is putting the pole back on the mast ring on the new guy.. the baby stay will make that even more of a handful but of the crew is on the ball with the guy and downhaul it should be manageable for the foredeck crew. Twingers would definitely be a good idea with this setup.. twinging the 'working guys' down hard midships/max beam will ease the loads on the downhaul, and go easier on the stanchions and lifelines too.

This also means it's easy to blow the guy from the cockpit. With today's lines they can be relatively small and still be strong enough, and so will present less drag.

If you want to stay with separate doubles, then perhaps use lighweight plastic shackles on the sheets, but they won't be up to "guy duties".

A SJ34 is certainly at the upper end for a end-for-end pole setup, but properly steered and sheeted the gibe should be manageable, esp with a fairly strong/stable person at the mast. Any chance you can make the babystay removable for the downwind legs? That would greatly ease the whole operation.
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Last edited by Faster; 12-21-2011 at 11:41 PM.
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Old 12-22-2011
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We do end for end gibes on a bene 36.7. It is a challenge in breeze but 2 sheets and 2 guys are mandatory. Working with a loaded pole on a 37 footer isn't fun at all. In light air (10kts or less) we just run sheets. Having shackles on all 4 lines makes it easy to add guys if the breeze builds.

For reduced weight, use 5/16 (or 3/8" max) line and strip as much of the cover as you can on both the sheet and the guy and you can also tapper them. On a 38' boat I used to race on, they have light air sheets and heavy air sheets.
Use smaller trigger shackles, like the tylaskas or wichards, titanium i$ another option, very light, but you need to take out a loan for one shackle.
Another option is soft shackles, they can't be released under load, but they do work great in light air.

I have spin sheets that go from 5/16" where the trimmers hold them, to 1/4" with cover, then down to 1/8" dyneema for the last 10' or so. Extremely light sheets, and with the soft shackles, the sheet weighs less than the clew of the spinnaker. You won't get much lighter than that.
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Old 12-22-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zz4gta View Post
We do end for end gibes on a bene 36.7. It is a challenge in breeze but 2 sheets and 2 guys are mandatory. Working with a loaded pole on a 37 footer isn't fun at all. In light air (10kts or less) we just run sheets. Having shackles on all 4 lines makes it easy to add guys if the breeze builds.

For reduced weight, use 5/16 (or 3/8" max) line and strip as much of the cover as you can on both the sheet and the guy and you can also tapper them. On a 38' boat I used to race on, they have light air sheets and heavy air sheets.
Use smaller trigger shackles, like the tylaskas or wichards, titanium i$ another option, very light, but you need to take out a loan for one shackle.
Another option is soft shackles, they can't be released under load, but they do work great in light air.

I have spin sheets that go from 5/16" where the trimmers hold them, to 1/4" with cover, then down to 1/8" dyneema for the last 10' or so. Extremely light sheets, and with the soft shackles, the sheet weighs less than the clew of the spinnaker. You won't get much lighter than that.
I have raced / sailed on two different 36.7's, neither had separate sheets and guys. The carbon fibre pole was not hard to handle.

A X-119 that I raced had sheets and guys, but was end-for-end; that was the bowman's preference. I was just a trimmer.

I agree with the desirability for using different weights of sheets. On the X-119 we use very light sheets in very light air. The shackles were plastic clips.

Larger line spliced in is easier on the trimmers hands.
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I think I've settled on a solution. I will use sheets and guys as described in solution #1 for mod-heavy days and light, tapered sheets with twingers and soft shackles for light days.

Faster, I'm going to give your suggestion of removing the baby-stay for down-wind and dip-pole gibing a shot.

Thanks
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Old 12-22-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJ34 View Post
I think I've settled on a solution. I will use sheets and guys as described in solution #1 for mod-heavy days and light, tapered sheets with twingers and soft shackles for light days.

Faster, I'm going to give your suggestion of removing the baby-stay for down-wind and dip-pole gibing a shot.

Thanks
Oops, I meant option #2.
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Old 12-22-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJ34 View Post
Faster, I'm going to give your suggestion of removing the baby-stay for down-wind and dip-pole gibing a shot.

Thanks
You may find that an end-for-end pole and ring setup will occasionally bind on a dip pole attempt.. dip poles and fittings are quite different so as to cleanly accommodate the arc of the dip pole travel.

It may be fine, but it will depend on the ring diameter, the bulk of the end fittings and the roominess of the jaws on the pole - just watch for that the first few times. If the pole twists over and binds - and your crew forces the pole you might bend something...

But removing the babystay will greatly ease your end-for-end gibes since you don't have to 'push out and around' the babystay against the new/loading guy....

Good luck!
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Last edited by Faster; 12-22-2011 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 12-22-2011
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I'm looking to make my babystay removable with one of these:

Johnson Marine Hardware Online Virtual Catalog: Page 2
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Old 12-22-2011
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Originally Posted by djodenda View Post
I'm looking to make my babystay removable with one of these:

Johnson Marine Hardware Online Virtual Catalog: Page 2
Get one of these as well

http://www.csjohnson.com/marinecatalog/00035.htm

(bottom image)

The two products make a nice simple method. I sail a couple of boats with removable inner stay; one has nothing, the other has a system that deforms easily.
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Last edited by jackdale; 12-22-2011 at 08:57 PM.
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Old 12-23-2011
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You might want to consider using Samson Ultra lite or similar. Very light lines and they do not absorb water so stay light in the rain. It has propylene and Dyneema fibre in it.

On my 30 footer I use 5/16" with Tylaskas T5s and rarely feel the need to go to light sheets.
I have some Ultra Light 3/16" that if I need them for really light air we tie them on with big Bow line so you can reach the know when the chute is flying.
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