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  #21  
Old 01-05-2012
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This business of people seeking a large number of suppliers and beating them up on price is just one of the oddities of these times. I am an architect. In the past a potential client might talk to 4-5 architects at the most before making a selection. In these times we have been talking to owners who have interviewed as many as a dozen architects and come in with all kinds of outlandish claims about how cheaply some offered to provide services. When I hear that kind of thing, I tend to be cautious about these potential clients. They may work out, but most of these extreme-tire-kickers are looking for the imposible and won't be satisfied not matter what you do for them. It's just the nature of the time, working twice as many hours for 2/3's the pay, but at least we have work....

As to this thread, I must admit that I don't understand why anyone would build the Magpie as designed. Atkins describes a workboat style of wooden boat construction, heavy frames, and planking, a minimal lamount of low density ballast, and almost no sail area relative to drag. Boats like these with concrete with iron boiler-punchings internal ballast had very short lives as the concrete held the moisture against the planking and frames rotting them out quickly.

Atkins designed many great tradition sailing designs, but this really isn't one of them. When you look at the small amount of ballast, this will be a tender boat for its drag. He does not show enough sail area to overcome that drag, nor does Atkin show enough stability to stand up to a bigger sail plan. Given the sail area to displacement the sail plan shows little more than steadying sails on a motorboat.

That is further reinforced by the hard bilges which were standard practice for displacement motorboats of that era but which give a pretty uncomfortable snap to the roll in a seaway (which may be why Atkins felt the need to give this boat steadying sails and ballast).

As someone who knows and loves traditional sailing craft, I just don't get why someone would want to build this particular design when there are so many wonderful traditional design that would sail better, have a more comfortable motion, and be more seaworthy.
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  #22  
Old 01-05-2012
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You should try to make it to Maine and attend the Maine boat builders show.

https://maineboatbuildersshow.eventb...&ref=enivtefor
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  #23  
Old 01-05-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
As someone who knows and loves traditional sailing craft, I just don't get why someone would want to build this particular design when there are so many wonderful traditional design that would sail better, have a more comfortable motion, and be more seaworthy.
Frankly, unless it's being built as a sort of museum piece (Pride of Baltimore) I fail to understand why anybody would build ANY of those ancient designs, or even use carvel planking for that matter.

I love the old looks and wooden boats - a staysail schooner is THE most beautiful boat to my eye - but one built to look like them, cold moulded etc. - a variation of the Spirit of Tradition idea, seems to me a much better way to go. If done judiciously, no one but a real old salt could tell - at least as long as it was afloat - but the end product would be a FAR better vessel.

Car people have a similar esthetic going called "Resto-mod" or "Resto-rod". They are old cars that have been updated with modern running gear but retain all the old looks. They look like an excellent restoration until you look underneath. The result is far better and more useable than an original car.

To my mind, that sort of discipline makes FAR more sense than a slavish copying of an antiquated design. One look at the cemeteries and monuments to dead sailors in the New England seaports should tell you something about old boat design.
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  #24  
Old 01-05-2012
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Jeff,

I know the feeling about the claims. I bid one job a year or so ago, foud out the winning bid was half my bid, or about what I figured my material would COST, much less some markup and labor! Homeowner said the same thing, did not know how they would do it.....I guess with that kind of attitude, if the contractor gets on the job, does something, goes BK, you have some money left to potentially hire the finish work, and still be money ahead!

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Old 01-05-2012
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Gentlemen. The bidding process under way presently, is a feasibility study/review. But before you head off to the cemetery with torches and pitchforks to piss on Akin's grave ... Magpie was designed in 1937. You think I am really going send $1 million and 12the months to build a barge that won't pass USCG regs or inspection. I think I'll build her with Monel 400 skin, 316L frame and cover her with Rinoliner... and I'll get my buddies at NASA to do the drive train.
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Old 01-05-2012
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Originally Posted by 1833usmc View Post
and I'll get my buddies at NASA to do the drive train.
That right there will blow your budget.
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  #27  
Old 01-05-2012
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On the other hand, if the NASA buddies do the drive train with a left over saturn 5 engine......might just be able to make said boat a planing hull!

Then one may not need them sail's Jeff were talking about too! uh huh!
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  #28  
Old 01-06-2012
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Blow the budget? Now you tell me! You guys are kill'n me! The boys in Houston just called, something about SR-71 engines? And they say they need an extra $250k for fuel by morning.

O.K. Jeff, you started all this. Now you go take up the collection from all your Puritan buddies!

What say you, all you squid piss of the mighty U.S.S. Magpie?!!!
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  #29  
Old 01-06-2012
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I ws going to say this earlier, but, you may want to talk with Bob Perry who posts on here occasionally, ask him what a modern material magpie look would cost to design, and have built with modern materials, with some SA ratios/power etc that would fit the what you want to do. I know personally, if as you said earlier, you truly have a mil to work with, I would not be custom building a plan from 1937! I might use it as a base, but Bob or someone else would be giving it a modern twist. Or at least have him or an equal go over the original plans to see what would need to be done to improve it!

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Old 01-06-2012
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Standby for firing mission...

Fire three rounds for effect on these coordinates ...

Standby for correcting fire...
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