Shroudless Masts - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree1Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 01-06-2012
smurphny's Avatar
Over Hill Sailing Club
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Adirondacks NY
Posts: 2,853
Thanks: 55
Thanked 63 Times in 61 Posts
Rep Power: 6
smurphny is on a distinguished road
It would be great to be able to do away with all the problems with swages, turnbuckles, corrosion, and rig tension but this technology is still in the experimental stage. One of the towing companies around LI Sound tried to kedge one of these off by the mast and wound up snapping it. It was a carbon fiber mast and, from what I heard, prohibitively expensive to replace. So apparently kedging yourself off by using the mast to heel the boat over is a tactic removed from the book of tricks with one of these.
__________________
Alberg 35: With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 01-06-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hamburg, NY
Posts: 156
Thanks: 8
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 5
RonRelyea is on a distinguished road
A Lot for sale??

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartsContent View Post
Clearly, it's not going to be as stable as a mast with shrouds so it would be expected to carry less sail and if you have sailing performance on your list this would probably not be your boat.

There seem to be a LOT of these for sale and there cannot have been that many made. I would avoid it like the plague.

Sorry in advanced to any existing Hunter Vision owners.
************************************************** *****

I see 4 32' Hunter Visions and 8 36' Hunter Visions on Yachtworld ... that "a LOT" ??
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 01-06-2012
CrazyRu's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 452
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
CrazyRu is on a distinguished road
Jees, my boat is 33 years old and it has fully battened big roach sails from a factory. The first American ever complete around alone sailed his open 60 with freestanding mast and people still calling the rig experimental... Freestanding rigs are part of American boatbuilding culture with very long history.
Everyone with freestanding mast know that while kedging mast needs to be supported with spare/jib/spinnaker halyard on opposite side.
__________________
CR
s/v NEMO - Freedom 28 Cat Ketch, centerboard
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 01-06-2012
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 14,672
Thanks: 68
Thanked 193 Times in 185 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
I'd say anywhere that efficient beating to windward is not a priority the various free standing rigs make a lot of sense. For example reaching between islands in the Caribbean looks like a good fit.

Not having to rely on stays and shrouds to stand up, a well engineered free standing rig should provide considerable peace of mind. Using carbon to minimize the weight of the larger section spar makes sense too but ups the cost, of course.

Nonsuch and Hunter use aluminum, tapered sections and they are large with the attendant windage, Freedom has almost always used CF. Hunter and Freedom offer models with vestigal jibs but headstay tension is always going to be a problem, hence the lack of need to beat efficiently would be a consideration in choosing such a boat.

It is a bit of a mystery why these have not caught on in the mainstream more than they have - but I suspect that most of us spend a fair time beating and so...... Interestingly in the eastern Caribbean we saw very few of these boats there too.
__________________
Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 01-06-2012
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 57
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 4
PsySailor is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
If it's the North South listing, it is a boat better suited to your purposes than the Catalina.

I have never sailed a free-standing rig, but it strikes me as being a good cruising rig. With no stays to tune or replace, it cuts down on maintenance, and may also cut labour costs when/if the stick is pulled.
The boat I'm looking at is a local listing, but it is the same year and model as the North South listing.

The one I'm looking at is not through a brokerage. It seems to come with better accessories. i.e. full enclosure, extra batteries, etc... It also appears that the couple who owns the boat never did much sailing and used it more like a cottage on the water.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 01-06-2012
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 57
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 4
PsySailor is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
It would be great to be able to do away with all the problems with swages, turnbuckles, corrosion, and rig tension but this technology is still in the experimental stage. One of the towing companies around LI Sound tried to kedge one of these off by the mast and wound up snapping it. It was a carbon fiber mast and, from what I heard, prohibitively expensive to replace. So apparently kedging yourself off by using the mast to heel the boat over is a tactic removed from the book of tricks with one of these.
Sounds like they were not too bright. It's a different technology, not experimental. If you don't know what you're doing, your bound to make mistakes... Just like with anything...
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 01-06-2012
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 57
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 4
PsySailor is on a distinguished road
How many degrees does it take off the close hauled course, exactly? I mean, I don't understand the physical principles that would make a free standing mast unable to beat upwind as well as shrouded masts.

Is it just the fact that the mast bends and you lose power?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #18  
Old 01-06-2012
bljones's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: South Coast Ontario
Posts: 8,148
Thanks: 32
Thanked 71 Times in 64 Posts
Rep Power: 7
bljones has a spectacular aura about bljones has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsySailor View Post
The boat I'm looking at is a local listing, but it is the same year and model as the North South listing.

The one I'm looking at is not through a brokerage. It seems to come with better accessories. i.e. full enclosure, extra batteries, etc... It also appears that the couple who owns the boat never did much sailing and used it more like a cottage on the water.
Re-read the North South listing- full enclosure and an Espar heater.
The boat currently listed on kijiji sails out of my marina and has seen a fair bit of cruising.
__________________
It's 5 o'clock somewhere:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #19  
Old 01-06-2012
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 57
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 4
PsySailor is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
Re-read the North South listing- full enclosure and an Espar heater.
The boat currently listed on kijiji sails out of my marina and has seen a fair bit of cruising.

It's not in the equipment list.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...url=&imc=pg-fs

EDIT: I did find it in description on broker page though. Thanks!

Last edited by PsySailor; 01-06-2012 at 12:08 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #20  
Old 01-06-2012
svHyLyte's Avatar
Old as Dirt!
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa Bay Area
Posts: 2,700
Thanks: 12
Thanked 102 Times in 97 Posts
Rep Power: 6
svHyLyte is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsySailor View Post
How many degrees does it take off the close hauled course, exactly? I mean, I don't understand the physical principles that would make a free standing mast unable to beat upwind as well as shrouded masts.

Is it just the fact that the mast bends and you lose power?
The simple answer to your question is that the Vision will give up a few degrees of windward tracking ability but, unless you intend to race, that is not much of an issue unless you are worried about becoming embayed on a lee shore in a gale, eh?

Free standing masts are not new technology. They have been around for thousands of years. Free standers are also very common on small sailing boats, think Opti's, Pelican's, Flying Fish, Lasers and the like. Gary Hoyt founded Freedom Yacht's in the mid-1970's to build a line of yachts that could exploit the simplicity of the rigs to good advantage. They were/are very good boats but were/are viewed with suspicion by those raised and schooled on traditional fully supported rigs. A disadvantage of the free standing ring is that, as the weight of a boat increases its resistance to heeling also increases and, the amount of sail area necessary to move the boat at any reasonable speed also increases. When confronted with the loads imposed on the spar by much increased sail area, an unsupported spar will fall off or bend to leeward, shedding wind load-hence power-and so, efficiency. To counter this--to some extent--one can increase the stiffness of the spar but the resulting weight gain, unless the spar is tapered, is counter productive. Of course, tapering is costly. They laid-up carbon fiber spars of the Freedom line were very costly as they were not produced in great enough quantities to exploit economies of scale and they were also viewed with suspicion and distrust, particularly after the disastrous performance of the carbon fiber rudder shafts in the Fastnet in '79.

Warren Luhrs--Hunter Marine--developed the Vision series of boats for comfortable, easy, uncomplicated sailing and, while not my cuppa tea, seem to be very good at serving that end.

FWIW...
HDChopper likes this.
__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Folding Masts rodbeuk General Discussion (sailing related) 21 10-12-2012 04:15 PM
Masts and Paint Edo Kazumichi Gear & Maintenance 5 03-15-2008 09:39 AM
About masts rugila Gear & Maintenance 1 03-14-2008 07:36 AM
Isomat masts deniseO30 O'Day 4 03-05-2007 05:47 PM
Masts, Stepping of lucy-pj General Discussion (sailing related) 1 04-08-2001 06:38 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:48 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.