The final solution - what I came up with regarding auxiliary propulsion (pic heavy) - Page 4 - SailNet Community
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post #31 of 52 Old 01-12-2012
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Chris,

I know this goes back a long way but how about preserving the looks and original design of your boat and just use the inboard when your lives depend on it? If you are going to violate your "engineless" concept what does it matter as to what kind of engine you use to violate it with? Besides, the inboard would provide the extra thrust when needed and also provide an easy way to charge your batteries, if you have any? I am sure I am missing something here but not sure what?

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post #32 of 52 Old 01-12-2012
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CnC,
I recently read an article, don't remember where, about using the dinghy as a push boat. Have you considered that? While your non-bracket is very nice looking, I think you will always see it there on the transom and it will be an eye sore, especially when you get further south and rust becomes more of a problem.
As I was sailing home from doing a bottom job last week I saw a barge pushboat that took the "form follows function" dictum to the limit. This "boat" was nothing more that a big, really big, engine with control room mounted on top. The hull was square, probably 12X12 and had two verticle push bars mounted on the front. His bow wave without a barge was impressive. So I'm thinking, how ugly is that?
Sometimes I wish "they" had never put an engine in a sailboat, but there are times when they are essential when in a narrow waterway. I like the side mount idea as it will reduce the tendency for the prop to rise out of the water as the boat pitches over wakes and waves. I think you will find it especially so on your boat which has a pretty long aft overhang, eventhought it has a low freeboard. Since you have good metal working skills I encourage you to design a really slick system that puts the outboard on the side about where the prop for an inboard would be.
Your thoughts?
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post #33 of 52 Old 01-12-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabnis View Post
Chris,

I know this goes back a long way but how about preserving the looks and original design of your boat and just use the inboard when your lives depend on it? If you are going to violate your "engineless" concept what does it matter as to what kind of engine you use to violate it with? Besides, the inboard would provide the extra thrust when needed and also provide an easy way to charge your batteries, if you have any? I am sure I am missing something here but not sure what?

Dabnis
He's already filled the armature, it would be some work re-instituting an inboard again. But if he did I think he wanted to go retro with an atomic 4, But wouldn't rule out a small block chevy as well...
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post #34 of 52 Old 01-12-2012
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I also wish that electric motor and battery technology where better but I am not convinced that much of the manufacturing processes for batteries are 'green'. I'm convinced of the opposite really.
I was also hoping the elctric motor/battery would be the way to go, but now we are hearing about car fires and boat fires due to the lithium ion batteries. Sounds like we gotta ways to go. Apparently the lithium ion batteries can burn very easily if not handled and charged properly and even then catch fire. CnC, I realize you want to go engineless but if you ever do decide to install an inboard what about finding a good yanmar 1gmd, 10 HP (direct sea water cooled engine). You can burn bio diesel and not have the diesel fume smell (exhasut or fuel). Relatively environmentally friendly, takes up little space (you could have say a 3 gallon fuel tank). When not using my 3gmd I flush with fresh water so hopefully corrosion won't be an issue for a while.
Here is one in Annapolis:
Single cylinder Yanmar
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Last edited by Faster; 01-12-2012 at 06:29 PM. Reason: fixed quote
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post #35 of 52 Old 01-12-2012
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The old Yanmar 2gm is long gone, and in it's place is an oven and sink, a filled in rudder and prop aperture, and of course storage until the cows come home... (and a white sparkly clean dry, really dry - as in no water/oil ever - deep bilge). The difference between a 4 hp ob with an integrated tank and that thing is substantial. One of the (many) huge reasons for getting it gone was the size of that motor, it was massive and way too much for a 10k pound boat (imo). I just can't have a diesel of that magnitude protruding into the living space. It stank, scared the bird, and generally made being below while under power quite unpleasant. Had she come with a 1gm, maybe..

Anyway, there are still a ton of reasons I don't want a "real" motor, another of which being I really want the challenge, the challenge of a destination reached through sail alone. Not using the diesel (but having it) is like the holodeck with the safety protocols on - a good idea, but no real danger. The dangers involved are what will make every action I decide to take as a captain count, hone my skills, and what will bring the greatest satisfaction when arriving at point B through brains and forethought. Or put me on the rocks, whatever. Some people need to jump out of airplanes, some people need to race motorcycles, I need to sail for "real" and see if I have what it takes to do this and cruise succesfully. It's just something I'm compelled to do right now.

Purist leanings have intrigued me since the very first time I sailed. Remember too, how small my boat really is (30' x 8.5 on the beam). I'd never do this in anything larger.

Well, maybe not never.. but...

This bracket and small o/b is for everyone else really, not me. I've learned the hard way about the bias out there regarding the motorless sailor (grin). If there wasn't a better half involved who might need it if I drop dead or something on the tiller, or if everyone didn't get so freaked when I come sailing into the slip or dropping the hook under sail, I'd not even have bothered designing this bracket to begin with prolly... We "practiced" for a long time not using the motor, I feel like I have an inkling of what's in store.

Oh, you asked about a battery... you sure you want to go there?
Haven't jumped out of any airplanes yet but did race off road motorcycles in the desert and in the National Forests on legal, approved courses, for 30 years. Can't do that any more, too many trips over the handlebars

I completely understand the challenge aspect. Just seems like mixing it up with commercial traffic with minimal power that is not readily available is kind of like riding without a helmet and protective gear. Best of luck and keep us posted on your adventures. Forgot, tell us about batteries?

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post #36 of 52 Old 01-12-2012
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Chris, how do you nav lights work without a battery (oil lamps)? How is the compost toilet working- thinking maybe installing one myself.
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post #37 of 52 Old 01-12-2012
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Wait, I was told sailing vessels have the right of way, so ...shouldn't be an issue...(rimshot/cymbal).....
Not over commercial vessels that are restricted in their ability to maneuver.... (rimshot/cymbal)

Seriously, a barge or container ship in my neck of the woods will absolutely turn you to splinters if you don't get out of the way and you would be found liable for the scratches on their bow. Practice getting that O/B installed in seconds.

We won't start the whole thing again. Boats sailed without engines for centuries. I wish you the best with it. They just didn't do it on the ICW with modern conflicting traffic.


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post #38 of 52 Old 01-12-2012 Thread Starter
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Chris, how do you nav lights work without a battery (oil lamps)? How is the compost toilet working- thinking maybe installing one myself.
Yup, oil lamps. Copper no less, and really beautiful in their form and functionality. They bill them as visible from 20km (lol, yea - ok then..), but they are very bright with the heavy fresnel lenses magnifying the light, and seemingly wind proof so far.

The composting toilet is the last frontier, as of right now it's still waiting patiently for it's first deposit. All the other stuff gets used as we work (still working, the end is nigh though). I'll admit though, even though I'm a believer and have even seen them in person on a few boats in use (and all was fine with nothing but glowing reviews), still have that "uh, hmm..." feeling...

I'm sure it'll be fine, again I'm a believer and have seen them in use in a live aboard capacity and all was fine (no stink at all).
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post #39 of 52 Old 01-12-2012 Thread Starter
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Not over commercial vessels that are restricted in their ability to maneuver.... (rimshot/cymbal)

Seriously, a barge or container ship in my neck of the woods will absolutely turn you to splinters if you don't get out of the way and you would be found liable for the scratches on their bow. Practice getting that O/B installed in seconds.

We won't start the whole thing again. Boats sailed without engines for centuries. I wish you the best with it. They just didn't do it on the ICW with modern conflicting traffic.
Huh, it's not like that here on the Chesapeake at all. The barges and ships here will often stop to let smaller boats pass, and even with the occasional collision - the captains usually just shake hands and move on, leaving it unreported..

Thanks for the well wishes, I think it might be the first time
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post #40 of 52 Old 01-12-2012
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Huh, it's not like that here on the Chesapeake at all. The barges and ships here will often stop to let smaller boats pass, and even with the occasional collision - the captains usually just shake hands and move on, leaving it unreported..

Thanks for the well wishes, I think it might be the first time
Wha... huh?

I was nearly run down in my Coronado 25 by a container vessel last year. I was near Bloody Point, making a stbd/stbd passing, when he abruptly turned further to stbd, causing me to dodge. I had a passenger whom I directed to drop to the cockpit sole to make sure that they didn't get pitched overboard while I negotiated the wake.

No comms from them, whatsoever. I dunno, maybe they were the exception and not the rule. I hope.

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