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  #41  
Old 01-12-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalebD View Post
I also wish that electric motor and battery technology where better but I am not convinced that much of the manufacturing processes for batteries are 'green'. I'm convinced of the opposite really.
I was also hoping the elctric motor/battery would be the way to go, but now we are hearing about car fires and boat fires due to the lithium ion batteries. Sounds like we gotta ways to go. Apparently the lithium ion batteries can burn very easily if not handled and charged properly and even then catch fire. CnC, I realize you want to go engineless but if you ever do decide to install an inboard what about finding a good yanmar 1gmd, 10 HP (direct sea water cooled engine). You can burn bio diesel and not have the diesel fume smell (exhasut or fuel). Relatively environmentally friendly, takes up little space (you could have say a 3 gallon fuel tank). When not using my 3gmd I flush with fresh water so hopefully corrosion won't be an issue for a while.
Here is one in Annapolis:
Single cylinder Yanmar
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chrisncate and chrisncate like this.

Last edited by Faster; 01-12-2012 at 07:29 PM. Reason: fixed quote
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  #42  
Old 01-12-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabnis View Post
Chris,

I know this goes back a long way but how about preserving the looks and original design of your boat and just use the inboard when your lives depend on it? If you are going to violate your "engineless" concept what does it matter as to what kind of engine you use to violate it with? Besides, the inboard would provide the extra thrust when needed and also provide an easy way to charge your batteries, if you have any? I am sure I am missing something here but not sure what?

Dabnis
The old Yanmar 2gm is long gone, and in it's place is an oven and sink, a filled in rudder and prop aperture, and of course storage until the cows come home... (and a white sparkly clean dry, really dry - as in no water/oil ever - deep bilge). The difference between a 4 hp ob with an integrated tank and that thing is substantial. One of the (many) huge reasons for getting it gone was the size of that motor, it was massive and way too much for a 10k pound boat (imo). I just can't have a diesel of that magnitude protruding into the living space. It stank, scared the bird, and generally made being below while under power quite unpleasant. Had she come with a 1gm, maybe..

Anyway, there are still a ton of reasons I don't want a "real" motor, another of which being I really want the challenge, the challenge of a destination reached through sail alone. The potential dangers involved are what will make every action I decide to take as a captain count, hone my skills, and what will bring the greatest satisfaction when arriving at point B through brains and forethought. Or put me on the rocks, whatever. Some people need to jump out of airplanes, some people need to race motorcycles, I need to sail for "real" and see if I have what it takes to do this and cruise succesfully. It's just something I'm compelled to do right now. I feel like a sellout for even giving in to the o/b, really (but I'll use it in good faith in situations I described earlier in the thread when needed - I won't "be a hero", and I will try to remember others out there and how my motorless gig worries them about their vessel...)

Purist leanings have intrigued me since the very first time I sailed. Remember too, how small my boat really is (30' x 8.5 on the beam). I'd never do this in anything larger.

Well, maybe not never.. but...

This bracket and small o/b is for everyone else really, not me. I've learned the hard way about the bias out there regarding the motorless sailor (grin). If there wasn't a better half involved who might need it if I drop dead or something on the tiller, or if everyone didn't get so freaked when I come sailing into the slip or dropping the hook under sail, I'd not even have bothered designing this bracket to begin with prolly... We "practiced" for a long time not using the motor, I feel like I have an inkling of what's in store.

Oh, you asked about a battery... you sure you want to go there?

Last edited by chrisncate; 01-13-2012 at 12:52 PM.
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  #43  
Old 01-12-2012
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Originally Posted by LandLocked66c View Post
He's already filled the armature, it would be some work re-instituting an inboard again. But if he did I think he wanted to go retro with an atomic 4, But wouldn't rule out a small block chevy as well...
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  #44  
Old 01-12-2012
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Originally Posted by mstern View Post
Some very interesting ideas here. I applaud anyone who works to preserve the look of a classic transom! I need an engine where I sail, and I must admit that one of the main reasons I passed on buying a particular boat years ago (a Cape Dory Typhoon) was that I just couldn't bear the thought of how an outboard looked hanging off that sweet Alberg design.

CnC, you and I differ on the desireability of an inboard engine, but I salute your ingenuity and sensibility in developing this solution. +1 to you sir.
I love the Typhoon! If I was single it'd prolly be the boat I'd be on (and thank you!).
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  #45  
Old 01-12-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisncate View Post
The old Yanmar 2gm is long gone, and in it's place is an oven and sink, a filled in rudder and prop aperture, and of course storage until the cows come home... (and a white sparkly clean dry, really dry - as in no water/oil ever - deep bilge). The difference between a 4 hp ob with an integrated tank and that thing is substantial. One of the (many) huge reasons for getting it gone was the size of that motor, it was massive and way too much for a 10k pound boat (imo). I just can't have a diesel of that magnitude protruding into the living space. It stank, scared the bird, and generally made being below while under power quite unpleasant. Had she come with a 1gm, maybe..

Anyway, there are still a ton of reasons I don't want a "real" motor, another of which being I really want the challenge, the challenge of a destination reached through sail alone. Not using the diesel (but having it) is like the holodeck with the safety protocols on - a good idea, but no real danger. The dangers involved are what will make every action I decide to take as a captain count, hone my skills, and what will bring the greatest satisfaction when arriving at point B through brains and forethought. Or put me on the rocks, whatever. Some people need to jump out of airplanes, some people need to race motorcycles, I need to sail for "real" and see if I have what it takes to do this and cruise succesfully. It's just something I'm compelled to do right now.

Purist leanings have intrigued me since the very first time I sailed. Remember too, how small my boat really is (30' x 8.5 on the beam). I'd never do this in anything larger.

Well, maybe not never.. but...

This bracket and small o/b is for everyone else really, not me. I've learned the hard way about the bias out there regarding the motorless sailor (grin). If there wasn't a better half involved who might need it if I drop dead or something on the tiller, or if everyone didn't get so freaked when I come sailing into the slip or dropping the hook under sail, I'd not even have bothered designing this bracket to begin with prolly... We "practiced" for a long time not using the motor, I feel like I have an inkling of what's in store.

Oh, you asked about a battery... you sure you want to go there?
Haven't jumped out of any airplanes yet but did race off road motorcycles in the desert and in the National Forests on legal, approved courses, for 30 years. Can't do that any more, too many trips over the handlebars

I completely understand the challenge aspect. Just seems like mixing it up with commercial traffic with minimal power that is not readily available is kind of like riding without a helmet and protective gear. Best of luck and keep us posted on your adventures. Forgot, tell us about batteries?

Dabnis
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  #46  
Old 01-12-2012
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Originally Posted by dabnis View Post
Haven't jumped out of any airplanes yet but did race off road motorcycles in the desert and in the National Forests on legal, approved courses, for 30 years. Can't do that any more, too many trips over the handlebars

I completely understand the challenge aspect. Just seems like mixing it up with commercial traffic with minimal power that is not readily available is kind of like riding without a helmet and protective gear. Best of luck and keep us posted on your adventures. Forgot, tell us about batteries?

Dabnis
Wait, I was told sailing vessels have the right of way, so ...shouldn't be an issue...(rimshot/cymbal)...

Seriously - I don't plan on mixing it up with the big ships too often, you certainly don't need to hang out in the shipping lanes in iffy winds (inshore), and I plan on following the most golden rule - NO timetables. Trying to "get there" when conditions aren't favorable isn't on the agenda, although you can never plan for every contingency. If there is no wind, I'll drop the o/b on (or already have had it on and at the ready).

I'm ready to accept it if I find that it really just won't work out being a motorless (almost motorless I guess) guy. After everything I've done at this point, I believe I could easily re install an inboard (I'd even do the Hal Roth/off center mount idea, love that idea) if it comes down to it. 1gm at the maximum... or electric.

Regarding batteries - I'm on the fence right now about that. Prolly gonna create another stir here, but since I currently have heat, light, nav lights, cooking and self steering (self steering not installed yet, but we all know they work, so..), all working extremely well so far and without needing battery power, I'm considering just not having a battery at all.

The problem is a radio (I want a ham set up in addition to the VHF I think), and a depth sounder. I have one of those "flashlight" looking handhelds (depth), but it isn't at all practical (lead line maybe?). The radio needs a battery any way you slice it though... so I'd have to decide what a radio means to me. Prolly wind up with one battery, one small panel to charge it. Plus, when I did the mast I switched over to LED's and rewired everything new, so there's that too..

It's an awesome feeling to cook, heat and light your boat in the dead of winter without the yellow cord, it's very satisfying. I have found the obsession of pursuing a boat that needs no external power or internal power to be addictive, and I've never seen another boat that can run as independent as mine at this point, it's awesome.

Last edited by chrisncate; 01-12-2012 at 08:12 PM.
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  #47  
Old 01-12-2012
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Chris, how do you nav lights work without a battery (oil lamps)? How is the compost toilet working- thinking maybe installing one myself.
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  #48  
Old 01-12-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisncate View Post
Wait, I was told sailing vessels have the right of way, so ...shouldn't be an issue...(rimshot/cymbal).....
Not over commercial vessels that are restricted in their ability to maneuver.... (rimshot/cymbal)

Seriously, a barge or container ship in my neck of the woods will absolutely turn you to splinters if you don't get out of the way and you would be found liable for the scratches on their bow. Practice getting that O/B installed in seconds.

We won't start the whole thing again. Boats sailed without engines for centuries. I wish you the best with it. They just didn't do it on the ICW with modern conflicting traffic.
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  #49  
Old 01-12-2012
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Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
Chris, how do you nav lights work without a battery (oil lamps)? How is the compost toilet working- thinking maybe installing one myself.
Yup, oil lamps. Copper no less, and really beautiful in their form and functionality. They bill them as visible from 20km (lol, yea - ok then..), but they are very bright with the heavy fresnel lenses magnifying the light, and seemingly wind proof so far.

The composting toilet is the last frontier, as of right now it's still waiting patiently for it's first deposit. All the other stuff gets used as we work (still working, the end is nigh though). I'll admit though, even though I'm a believer and have even seen them in person on a few boats in use (and all was fine with nothing but glowing reviews), still have that "uh, hmm..." feeling...

I'm sure it'll be fine, again I'm a believer and have seen them in use in a live aboard capacity and all was fine (no stink at all).
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Old 01-12-2012
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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Not over commercial vessels that are restricted in their ability to maneuver.... (rimshot/cymbal)

Seriously, a barge or container ship in my neck of the woods will absolutely turn you to splinters if you don't get out of the way and you would be found liable for the scratches on their bow. Practice getting that O/B installed in seconds.

We won't start the whole thing again. Boats sailed without engines for centuries. I wish you the best with it. They just didn't do it on the ICW with modern conflicting traffic.
Huh, it's not like that here on the Chesapeake at all. The barges and ships here will often stop to let smaller boats pass, and even with the occasional collision - the captains usually just shake hands and move on, leaving it unreported..

Thanks for the well wishes, I think it might be the first time
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