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The final solution - what I came up with regarding auxiliary propulsion (pic heavy)

11K views 51 replies 27 participants last post by  Capt Len 
#1 · (Edited)
#5 ·
Neat idea, hard to predict how usage over time will hold up. Could be a lot of weight and strain on those welds. I'm imagining that physically installing the outboard in the mount will be an exercise to some degree, ie retrieving it, leaning over the transom, tightening fasteners, etc.

Gasoline in a lazerete is a no no.

Giving up a lazerete to accommodate the increased space gained by removing the main engine is confusing.
 
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#9 ·
Chris,

Nice work, assuming the welds are sound. it would be interesting to see how long it takes to get the motor out and mounted, started and getting underway when a big barge or other commercial vessel is about to run you down. In your pictures it looked like your boat was about 30 feet. 3 to 4 HP may push it in calm waters with minimal current. If you have any chop where you are going you will need the longest shaft you can get or you will be "spinning your wheels". I guess it all depends on how often you will have to use it as to whether you leave it on permanently or mount it each time you need it. 3 to 4 HP seems kind of whimpy but it is a whole lot better than nothing. Curious about your battery charging capabilities?

Dabnis
 
#11 ·
I can't see the photos where I am, (yet) but it sounds like a good idea. I think you should try to source a two-stroke 5hp engine. The weight would be comparable, and you'll have more HP.

If you coordinate with winds and currents, hopefully this can get you through those narrow, unsailable areas of the ICW. I'm glad you came up with some kind of emergency propulsion.
 
#12 ·




NOT that it does not take HP to move a boat BUT IMHP I think there is a massive misunderstanding of just how bad a standard prop is :)

Because 4HP moved the 8000# Cal 29 at 4.5 knots and while the now healthy A4 will go 6.5 + the stern sinks above 5.5 knots

The biggect issue was NOT sinking the motor while crossing some BIG barge wakes in NYC :eek:

They use pretty much the same system on Jboats Up to the J29 MHOB
 
#14 ·
Chris,

Wondering what effect taking out maybe 300 to 400 pounds from way down low and adding 50 or so pounds way back and up high might have on the sailing characteristics of your boat? Maybe making it a bit tender? Seems like a big change in the overall design function? If you can find someone that has made the same change it would be interesting.

Dabnis
 
#15 ·
The void where the engine was, probably will not remain empty. He'll load it with gear which will probably offset the missing weight somewhat.

Now that I'm home, the gear looks solid, and well-made. I really encourage you to look for a 5 - 8 hp TWO-STROKE outboard. It'll be very light and give you a better push against an adverse current. If you're going for a 4-stroke engine, then yeah, 4hp is probably your weight limit.
 
#16 ·
Chris, that's a good idea... but like most, it's not new. We had a boat built in 1982 with exactly that setup - a 24 foot dayracer that raced one-design with the motor below on the cabin sole. We had the exact same type of bracket that accepted the more standard lighter duty spring loaded OB bracket.

We left the motor on the bracket and lifted the whole assembly off the slider just as you plan to do.. there was a keeper pin to prevent the motor/mount from 'hopping' off the transom on a big wave.

Nevertheless, good thinking, and nice work - should work fine!
 
#17 ·
Seems like an uncharacteristically pragmatic way of dealing with having no engine; carrying an engine for use 'as needed'.
I also must agree that the looks of an outboard hanging off your pretty stern overhang is anathema.
Your bracket bracket looks pretty solid too. Time will tell. If it works then you can patent it and see if it helps your cruising kitty.
For those that asked, I believe that CnC has a 30' S&S sloop, IIRC. Nice looking boat and he has really spared few details with his re-fit.
It is going to be along winter so as far as I'm concerned you can make baiting comments all winter long but in the spring you better be heading somewhere.
 
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#18 ·
Looks great!!

Watch out for bigger seas, where the prop might come out of the water (or the engine get submerged).

Regards,
Brad
 
#22 ·
Nice job Chris! I've often thought that a mount similar to that, but much longer top to bottom, would be a great way to store the outboard. When you want to put it on the dingy just pull a pin and slide it down to water level and hop in the dinghy to transfer it to the transom. Or if the main engine/prop is kaput, use the outboard for propulsion like you are planning to do. When done just pull it up and lock in place. Seeyalatermoonglow has a nifty setup that does what I"m doing a crummy job of trying to explain, his uses an aluminum tube to go up and down on.
 
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#28 ·
CnC,
I highly recommend that book by Henry Plummer ("Me, the Boy and the Cat"). It is an easy read and a fun slice of one man's account of going up and down the early ICW. Back then there was a canal that went up the Raritan River (in NJ) to the Delaware River (north of Philly) so they did relatively little 'outside' sailing as their main boat was small (~23'). They ran aground a few times but depended on their 'kicker' or OB engine and were able to fix it when needed. Some of his observations about the folks he met along the way are priceless; biased by his plain spoken New England background. I highly recommend it, five stars ***** out of five.
I really do like the 'engine-less' idea but having an engine you can use is better then rowing against the current. I also wish that electric motor and battery technology where better but I am not convinced that much of the manufacturing processes for batteries are 'green'. I'm convinced of the opposite really.
I've grown to like my now antique 1967 Atomic 4 engine (even if it pollutes in it's own way) and have striven to make the old beast the devil I know, love and care for. It still gets me where I need to go and the more I care for it the better it seems to take care of me. Get the manuals for the outboard you end up going with if you don't already have them.
My friends San Juan 29' is down in Marathon. I'll just be there for a few days to do an informal inspection of his boat and lambaste him for any short comings I find; and I expect to find a few. I'm also hoping to go for a sail above all.
What seems a bit odd to me is that my T 27' weighs in at 7200#'s and his SJ 29' at about 6000#s. I seem to like older model boats better. We'll see.
 
#34 · (Edited by Moderator)
I also wish that electric motor and battery technology where better but I am not convinced that much of the manufacturing processes for batteries are 'green'. I'm convinced of the opposite really.
I was also hoping the elctric motor/battery would be the way to go, but now we are hearing about car fires and boat fires due to the lithium ion batteries. Sounds like we gotta ways to go. Apparently the lithium ion batteries can burn very easily if not handled and charged properly and even then catch fire. CnC, I realize you want to go engineless but if you ever do decide to install an inboard what about finding a good yanmar 1gmd, 10 HP (direct sea water cooled engine). You can burn bio diesel and not have the diesel fume smell (exhasut or fuel). Relatively environmentally friendly, takes up little space (you could have say a 3 gallon fuel tank). When not using my 3gmd I flush with fresh water so hopefully corrosion won't be an issue for a while.
Here is one in Annapolis:
Single cylinder Yanmar
Regards
 
#31 ·
Chris,

I know this goes back a long way but how about preserving the looks and original design of your boat and just use the inboard when your lives depend on it? If you are going to violate your "engineless" concept what does it matter as to what kind of engine you use to violate it with? Besides, the inboard would provide the extra thrust when needed and also provide an easy way to charge your batteries, if you have any? I am sure I am missing something here but not sure what?

Dabnis
 
#32 ·
CnC,
I recently read an article, don't remember where, about using the dinghy as a push boat. Have you considered that? While your non-bracket is very nice looking, I think you will always see it there on the transom and it will be an eye sore, especially when you get further south and rust becomes more of a problem.
As I was sailing home from doing a bottom job last week I saw a barge pushboat that took the "form follows function" dictum to the limit. This "boat" was nothing more that a big, really big, engine with control room mounted on top. The hull was square, probably 12X12 and had two verticle push bars mounted on the front. His bow wave without a barge was impressive. So I'm thinking, how ugly is that?
Sometimes I wish "they" had never put an engine in a sailboat, but there are times when they are essential when in a narrow waterway. I like the side mount idea as it will reduce the tendency for the prop to rise out of the water as the boat pitches over wakes and waves. I think you will find it especially so on your boat which has a pretty long aft overhang, eventhought it has a low freeboard. Since you have good metal working skills I encourage you to design a really slick system that puts the outboard on the side about where the prop for an inboard would be.
Your thoughts?
John
 
#38 ·
Yup, oil lamps. Copper no less, and really beautiful in their form and functionality. They bill them as visible from 20km (lol, yea - ok then..), but they are very bright with the heavy fresnel lenses magnifying the light, and seemingly wind proof so far.

The composting toilet is the last frontier, as of right now it's still waiting patiently for it's first deposit. All the other stuff gets used as we work (still working, the end is nigh though). I'll admit though, even though I'm a believer and have even seen them in person on a few boats in use (and all was fine with nothing but glowing reviews), still have that "uh, hmm..." feeling...

I'm sure it'll be fine, again I'm a believer and have seen them in use in a live aboard capacity and all was fine (no stink at all).
 
#48 ·
Yup nice bit of TIC welding there. Not often one sees that on a home made bit of kit.
More often then not I tend to look up when seeing "home job welding" and try to find the pidgeon that done it in the spreaders.

ATB

Michael
 
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#50 ·
I'm impressed. Precious few are willing to come back later and admit that maybe their grand, unconventional plans turned out to be a bit of "insanity." Takes a big man to make that sort of admission and my hat is off to you.

Let's hope that others will read this and realize that sometimes the unconventional is unconventional for a very good reason--because the conventions WORK!
 
#52 ·
Had to chuckle over your method of bending the toe rail . Did a similar job on Thane, (with ropes+tackle at the dock) pulling 20 ft 2x4.s on the flat around my modified Spray for bulwarks. (6 times around) Glue and nailed with bolts thru before cap. I was also a broke purist (engineless) for a while. Finally got a job to rectify the situation.
 
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