Reality at Sea - For Cruisers, Singlehanders, and Normal People. - Page 25 - SailNet Community
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post #241 of 375 Old 01-16-2012
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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post

Once, we had our lunch anchor down in the bay with a 150 ft power yacht several hundred yards away. When I looked it up, some newspaper articles said it was reportedly owned by a NYC mobster. We decided not to socialize. However, it too was for rent.
Good call. You might have ended up swimmin' wit da fishes!
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post #242 of 375 Old 01-16-2012
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Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post

Again, we read about problems retracting a roller furling jib in heavy air, and all the associated problems it has caused. I seem to recall Cha Cha's skipper experienced the same difficulty, leading to its roller-furling jib being ripped to shreds. I am still not convinced roller furling is the way to go offshore.
Well, I can only imagine someone like Brad van Liew might get a hearty chuckle, listening to us cyber-sailors debate the question of whether roller furling headsails are suitable for offshore sailing…. (grin)



Don’t let your opinion be informed by an incident such as this, a failure suffered by an incompetent skipper in command of a piece of crap like CHA-CHA…Properly installed, maintained, and used, today’s quality furlers like those from Selden, Profurl, Harken and the rest are virtually bulletproof, and among the most reliable gear to be found on today’s boats… There is very little to “fear” about their causing trouble, I honestly can’t remember the last time I had a serious issue with a headsail furler, and their universal acceptance among the elite singlehanded racing fraternity speaks volumes about their functionality and reliability…

Two weeks ago tonight, I was riding the first arctic blast of the winter down the Delmarva coast… It was a very sporty ride, a close reach most of the way, but the real work started at about 0200 when I made the turn at Cape Charles, and began the beat back up into Hampton Roads… Switching gears down from the genoa to staysail, I can’t imagine having to do that with hanked-on sails on my boat… It was cold, in the 20s, the tide was flooding and kicking up a wicked chop against the 30 knot NNWly… I have no problem going to the mast to reef the main on a night like that, or in the conditions I just had off the Georgia/N Florida coast Friday night, but going forward of the mast is a whole different ballgame…

Another thing often overlooked on smaller boats and the use of hanked-on sails offshore, is the compromise forced upon one by the matter of stowage of your tender… On a boat like mine, the foredeck is really the only option for stowing the tender on passage, and it would seriously impair my ability to deal with hanked-on sails, and make it much more dangerous than on a clear foredeck… As always, just another tradeoff to be considered…

There may be good reasons for some to still prefer to avoid RF on a cruising boat, but fear of failure/problems should certainly not be among them… I would guess that 99.9% of those making the switch to RF never look back, if you know what you’re doing with today’s systems and don’t abuse them, there’s really very little chance of major drama with their use, IMHO…
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post #243 of 375 Old 01-16-2012
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Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Well, I can only imagine someone like Brad van Liew might get a hearty chuckle, listening to us cyber-sailors debate the question of whether roller furling headsails are suitable for offshore sailing…. (grin)
I see what your mean. He has three of them just in case one or two break.
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post #244 of 375 Old 01-16-2012
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Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
... their universal acceptance among the elite singlehanded racing fraternity speaks volumes about their functionality and reliability…
Members of the elite singlehanded racing fraternity generally have sponsors


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I would guess that 99.9% of those making the switch to RF never look back,
I would guess that 98.9% of those making the switch to RF never go offshore at all.

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if you know what you’re doing with today’s systems and don’t abuse them, there’s really very little chance of major drama with their use, IMHO…
Agreed. But that is a mighty big IF.


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post #245 of 375 Old 01-16-2012
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Hardly see anyone here (offshore) using hank on sails. Not a whole lot of "If's" in using a modern RF system. Let's see for me it's been, what 14 years and NO, NADA, yep a big zero on the failure part. Not a whole lot to maintain either. Flush the bearings out once in awhile, check the extrusions, change the line every few years as needed and I'm good to go. I would not leave home with out it. But, hey i still use a manual windlass, so some things die hard for some folks.....
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post #246 of 375 Old 01-17-2012
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Great Learning Experience

Been lurking on Sailnet for the past year and only have a few posts but felt compelled to say thanks to the OP for starting this thread and I hope the good karma spread by drake is returned to him. Although it sounds like after finding Monique you may have to call it even As a matter of fact, you may owe karma one!

As to Cha Cha......I'm calling complete BS. Having been raised in the Newport, RI area, highly unlikely he was broke. That's not a cheap place to live. Yes, his engine didn't work well, but he still had to have fuel. Not cheap. He had to stock the boat w/ food. Not cheap. IMO Cha Cha was gambling on the kindness of strangers. You really think he was going to Bermuda w/ a woman he didn't know AND NO MONEY IN HIS POCKET? DOO DOO.

From this, I've learned to ask a lot of questions in a situation like this. Ask specifics about remedying the problems. Has he determined what's causing the stuck rudder? Has he even attempted to look? I'd definitely ask about the skipper's ability to reimburse for damages.

Last, I'd like to hear other's opinions on maritime law concering a situation like this. Could Drake have pursued Cha Cha legally?

Drake, I subscribed to your YouTube channel. I read this thread start to finish. A great thread! I've learned sooooo much from Sailnet and I hope to reconnect w/ the lifestyle in the years to come.

Now, I need to run. Velocity channel is running a show called "Against the Tide". It's an around the world race for amateur sailors (professional/experienced skippers on each clipper). Unfortunately, after looking into joining the next race. It turns out they charge each crewmember $70,000 to complete the entire race. Bummer!

Thanks again!
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post #247 of 375 Old 01-17-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Well, I can only imagine someone like Brad van Liew might get a hearty chuckle, listening to us cyber-sailors debate the question of whether roller furling headsails are suitable for offshore sailing…. (grin)



Don’t let your opinion be informed by an incident such as this, a failure suffered by an incompetent skipper in command of a piece of crap like CHA-CHA…Properly installed, maintained, and used, today’s quality furlers like those from Selden, Profurl, Harken and the rest are virtually bulletproof, and among the most reliable gear to be found on today’s boats…
You make a good case, Jon and you know I respect your experience and opinion. If I do ever upgrade to roller furling, I know I'll still be on the foredeck swapping sails (if conditions are safe enough), because I hate the shape of a partially furled sail.

However, I'll agree that when things go sour, that the ability to just roll the entire thing up from the safety of the cockpit, is probaby pretty nice.

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post #248 of 375 Old 01-17-2012
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Originally Posted by drakeParagon View Post

Just before I sold my Westsail 32 I purchased a Gale Rider drogue made mostly of webbing and was impressed by how good the construction seemed. I couldn't imagine it being ripped apart or getting fouled.. But I never got to use it..

It was really hard to not damage the JSD cones in the jib sheet winch when retrieving it, and i did end up having to sew quite a few of them back together.. I'm awestruck by HAL Roth's JSD Retrieval idea that I see in smackdaddy's last post here... I can't imagine that the cones could get damaged in my anchor bow roller or windlass.. WICKED COOL!!! How come I never thought of that?!? Wow!!!

Drake
Perhaps it’s just me, but I’m failing to see the brilliance of Hal’s plan… And, far be it from me to take issue with one of my alltime sailing heroes, Hal Roth, but I would seriously doubt he had ever attempted to retrieve a JSD in boisterous conditions, using such a method, without at least damaging the drogue heavily…

The JSD, considering what it is asked to do, is still a surprisingly “delicate” piece of gear… And the only “proper” manner of retrieving it will be a rather careful, if not painstakingly laborious, one… IMHO, the only real way to do it is to heave-to, stopping the boat’s forward motion as much as possible, and haul it back into the cockpit manually… As you know, that’s gonna require a tremendous amount of effort, especially in conditions that are still rough, but have abated sufficiently that you want to hit the road again…

That’s the big advantage of the Galerider, it’s relative ease of retrieval using winches, and what recommends its use in somewhat more “marginal” storm conditions… The deployment of a JSD, you’ve got to accept you’re likely to have to live with it for perhaps a longer period of time than you’d like…

But pulling one of those contraptions back over an anchor roller on a heaving foredeck in big seas (or, in your case, THROUGH your bowsprit on your Westsail) using an electric windlass, well – I just don’t see how you’re gonna manage that without basically tearing the cones to shreds… Anyone who has spent many a winter evening performing the endlessly tedious task of constructing their own Jordan Series Drogue, will definitely want to keep the damage to a minimum… (grin)

For me, this is yet one more example in favor of keeping boat size “reasonable” for shorthanded sailing offshore… On a boat up to 40’ or thereabouts, it should still be possible for an individual to manhandle such gear back on deck without mechanical assistance… But on the much larger boats so many people are now putting to sea aboard, the loads would simply be too great for the crew to deal with physically… (Not to mention, another argument for attempting to keep your stern rail as clean as possible by mimimizing 'de Crap on 'de Back... Try to either deploy or retrieve a JSD from inside a fully-enclosed aft cockpit, for example... (grin))

Finally, for anyone making up theit own JSD, I’d recommend considering the use of a Spectra rope like Amsteel instead of the more conventional double braid…. Because you can use a much smaller diameter rope, the weight of the assembly will be much lighter, it won't absorb water, and will stow in a far more compact package… Amsteel’s considerably more expensive, no doubt, but well worth it in this case, IMHO…
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post #249 of 375 Old 01-17-2012
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Smack, round up the Cha Cha's captain! Let's hear his story!

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post #250 of 375 Old 01-17-2012 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
...

Finally, for anyone making up theit own JSD, I’d recommend considering the use of a Spectra rope like Amsteel instead of the more conventional double braid…. Because you can use a much smaller diameter rope, the weight of the assembly will be much lighter, it won't absorb water, and will stow in a far more compact package… Amsteel’s considerably more expensive, no doubt, but well worth it in this case, IMHO…
That's a great idea. I don't know how much the elasticity of the rope plays into the performance of the drogue - but everything else you mention sounds perfectly reasonable.


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