A cast of characters - Rocna plot continues - Page 11 - SailNet Community
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post #101 of 131 Old 03-05-2012
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Re: A cast of characters - Rocna plot continues

Congo,

While you have shown great negativeity about ROCNA and Smith, noticably absent are many comments about the Manson gang. Any special reason for that? They both " copied " you.

I know of the reprehensible arrogance and campaing of anchor smith, but both surely took your business.

I have one of the original ROCNA from NZ shipped from there and have been very happy with it and in fact sleep very comfortably at night when using it. I probably wouldnt buy one now considering the quality issues.

Dave


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post #102 of 131 Old 03-05-2012
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Re: A cast of characters - Rocna plot continues

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Originally Posted by chrisncate View Post
Did you ever come forward like this on sailing forums publicly before Rocna bit the dust (so to speak)?
Rex has been on other forums just not here... I WISH his anchors were available here....

And my apologies to Rex for omitting the Sarca from my recalled history. I went straight from Wasi to Rocna/Manson but the Sarca also had this design WELL before Rocna and Manson and the rock slot was NOT an original Manson idea.......

That said, Rex how do I get a Sarca in the USA? I would retire my Rocna......

Disclaimer: My Rocna and Manson Supreme anchors are still the best performing products I've used, even edging out my steel and aluminum Spade by a decent margin. This performance opinion will not change until I find a better performing anchor.

I however no longer support anything to do with Rocna and am in the search for a new anchor, that must perform equally or better. This is in order to remove the Rocna PERMANENTLY from my bow.

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Last edited by Maine Sail; 03-05-2012 at 10:25 AM.
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post #103 of 131 Old 03-05-2012
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Re: A cast of characters - Rocna plot continues

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Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Rex has been on other forums just not here... I WISH his anchors were available here....

And my apologies to Rex for omitting the Sarca from my recalled history. I went straight from Wasi to Rocna/Manson but the Sarca also had this design WELL before Rocna and Manson.....
Can you please go back and edit that? Heh-heh.
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post #104 of 131 Old 03-05-2012
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Re: A cast of characters - Rocna plot continues

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Can you please go back and edit that? Heh-heh.
Done...

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post #105 of 131 Old 03-05-2012
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Re: A cast of characters - Rocna plot continues

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Can you please go back and edit that? Heh-heh.
Still smarting over me outing your notable silence (then shaming you into a half assed defense) of S/N over on S/A huh?
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post #106 of 131 Old 03-05-2012
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Re: A cast of characters - Rocna plot continues

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Done...
Nice. You gotta love this place.


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post #107 of 131 Old 03-05-2012
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Re: A cast of characters - Rocna plot continues

CnC, not really the thread nor sub-forum for that. Can you at least keep the unrelated snark to Off-Topic? Some of us are actually liking this thread for the info that's coming up. I know I don't want to see it devolve so soon like the other anchor threads.
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post #108 of 131 Old 03-05-2012
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Re: A cast of characters - Rocna plot continues

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CnC, not really the thread nor sub-forum for that. Can you at least keep the unrelated snark to Off-Topic? Some of us are actually liking this thread for the info that's coming up. I know I don't want to see it devolve so soon like the other anchor threads.
You need to go ahead and direct that at the poster going off topic at me first, thanks.

And no worries, I won't be responding to the thread (or ruining it for you).
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post #109 of 131 Old 03-05-2012
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Re: A cast of characters - Rocna plot continues

Thanks CnC.
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post #110 of 131 Old 03-05-2012
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Re: A cast of characters - Rocna plot continues

I'm pretty sure nobody is interested in my opinions on this, but...
The biggest problem in trying to choose an anchor for ones boat is the dearth of factual information about wind loads on boats, working strengths of rode components, tensile strength of anchors and holding power or load capability of different anchors in various media.
How much pull can an xyz boat exert in a ## knot wind?
How much does wave action amplify that pull?
I have read anchor test reports in magazines, watched Maine Sail's videos, and looked at manufacturer's information and none of that leads me to a conclusion of which anchor design, what size anchor, how much and what size chain, how much and what size rope, what size anchor cleat...etc. After watching Main Sails' videos I was all hot for a Rocna, but then all this crap came out so started looking at Manson Supremes and Fortresses.
For my 28 foot 7850 pound sailboat it would appear that anything from a 12 to a 45 pound anchor with somewhere between 10 and 300 feet of 1/4 (BBB or hi test?) chain and/or 250 feet of 1/2 inch nylon rope. That translates in a price range or a couple of hundred dollars to more than a thousand bucks. It seems to me someone like Practical Sailor or CCA or the EU Standards association could put together a Sleep Well at Night (SWAN) computation that lets one enter knowable data elements and voila here's the configration for your requirements.

Another thing, who cares who stole what from whom. If you can submit a design and get a patten, then there are sufficient differences in the products to make who came first irrelevant. All anchors evolved from a rock, live with it and celebrate the proximate changes.

What I do care about are liars and there appear to be some in the anchor business.

Someone pointed out that you can't anchor a boat on a warranty. So the best thing you can rely on is factual honest information from the engineering department. Think about an anchor warranty. Say you are going to sell 10,000 anchors this year, that represents at most 3,650,000 anchoring events. In acutality there will probably only be 7,300 anchoring events and only 1,825 will be in gale conditions and maybe, maybe a dozen in storm conditionsand one of those is going to break. For sure we are going to read about that one here on SN. So marketing says sure, if you bought the right size and it breaks, we will replace it. But in the really small fine print liability is limited to anchor replacement only. And of course there is no warranty on the shackle, chain, rope, chaffing gear or deck cleat. Anchor warranties don't mean anything.

Maybe we can commission Maine Sail to develope the SWAN computation and make a sticky out of it. I'll be happy to go help him with the testing (on his boat, in Maine, in the summer, eating lobsters and drinking beer and...).

Gah!
John
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