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  #111  
Old 03-05-2012
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Re: A cast of characters - Rocna plot continues

Actually, getting a patent simply means that the examiner did not find the previous patents or he/she didn't notice the similarities. There are a number of stupid patents that make it through the checking process that prove the contention getting a patent means the invention is unique. People have patented the wheel & peanut butter & jelly sandwiches for crying out loud!

This does goes for all anchors mind you, not just Rocna. Not trying to defend any side here, just pointing out that getting a patent is not necessarily the indicator of a unique or substantially different invention.
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  #112  
Old 03-06-2012
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Re: A cast of characters - Rocna plot continues

Hi chef2sail.


You wrote;
Quote:
while you have shown great negativity about ROCNA and Smith. Problem being I have been answering questions and from my side there is simply nothing nice to say about the Anchor Smiths.
You wrote;
Quote:
noticeably absent are many comments about the Manson gang.
Manson and Anchor Right have had our issues but we haven’t hung out our dirty laundry on the forums.

You wrote;
Quote:
I have one of the original ROCNA from NZ shipped from there and have been very happy with it and in fact sleep very comfortably at night when using it.
If you are happy with what you are deploying then I have no comment.


Hi Maine Sail thanks for your kind words.

You wrote;
Quote:
that said, Rex how do I get a Sarca in the USA? I would retire my Rocna
Joe at Seacor in Seattle has just imported some large Sarca’s, I would imagine he will be organizing another order soon; you can pm me if you want more details.



Hi ccriders.


You wrote;
Quote:
I'm pretty sure nobody is interested in my opinions on this, but...
The biggest problem in trying to choose an anchor for ones boat is the dearth of factual information about wind loads on boats, working strengths of rode components, tensile strength of anchors and holding power or load capability of different anchors in various media.
Well I am interested, If you want solid information the best place to get this information is from any marine survey officer, it will cost, but he will simply spec your boat as to weight wind age draft and so on, you tell him where you expect to travel, open anchorages, open waters subject to strong wind excetera and he will get you as close as to the correct ground tackle, weight, size, even your chain size, but no make no mistake he would recommend tested chain and guide you in the wright direction.

These guys are qualified to do this; their information comes from the most proven oldest hand book information available, the USL CODE, Lloyds, DNV, and N.M.S.C. in Australia and many more still rely on this information when specking the ground tackle for boats.


Yes do not believe what you read re holding power figures from unqualified media, get this information from an authority that has done the testing, such as Lloyd’s DNV, N.M.S.C. and so on, otherwise you will continue getting conflicting results from one anchor test to another. Unfortunately you have be wary of liars that say they have certified S/H/H/Power anchors when in fact they don’t, you have seen the results, shanks bending like pretzels, lucky no one came to grief because of them, if they had come to grief, most definitely the Mary men would have had a law suit against them.

You Wrote;
Quote:
Another thing, who cares who stole what from whom. If you can submit a design and get a patent, then there are sufficient differences in the products to make who came first irrelevant. All anchors evolved from a rock, live with it and celebrate the proximate changes.
Possibly no one cares except the inventor.


You wrote;
Quote:
someone pointed out that you can't anchor a boat on a warranty. So the best thing
You can rely on is factual honest information from the engineering department. Think about an anchor warranty. Say you are going to sell 10,000 anchors this year that represents at most 3,650,000 anchoring events. In actuality there will probably only be 7,300 anchoring events and only 1,825 will be in gale conditions and maybe, maybe a dozen in storm conditions and one of those is going to break. For sure we are going to read about that one here on SN. So marketing says sure, if you bought the right size and it breaks, we will replace it. But in the really small fine print liability is limited to anchor replacement only. And of course there is no warranty on the shackle, chain, rope, chaffing gear or deck cleat. Anchor warranties don't mean anything.
You know we do have standards, you would not fly in a plane if it wasn’t built to standards, but if so, there is still no guarantee you will land safely, you would not buy a car that is not made to standards, even if it is, and fitted with four airbags you still may easily be killed, so basically all we have is standards to regulate safety as best we can, So why would anyone buy an anchor not made to standards, well made anchors too, have indeed saved lives, there is no perfect anchor and I don’t believe their ever will be, but if you have liars cheats out there as we have seen then you just may end up with a dud.

So ask the questions, is this anchor tested certified, by who, if it sounds dodgy check out who tested the anchor, show me the test cert. show me how much holding power per kilo of this design, quality steels then show me the proof test results, if they cannot supply this information don’t buy the anchor.

We have just supplied a 105 k.G. for a Sun Seeker, the owner had a survey officer spec the anchor size, we had to supply all of the information that I have just taken you through, so now because of the thouroughness of researching and then us supplying, if something should happen simply because we lied, are we liable, you bet we are.

I am going to attach some good information and I would encourage you to read it, it may reassure you that some anchor manufactures are not just there to make a quick buck, but more importantly will answer many questions about shank strengths and sideways pull.

Regards.

Rex.

CEO of Anchor Right Australia.

Sorry fellars once again I cannot up load this file,must be to big.

Last edited by Faster; 03-06-2012 at 11:02 AM. Reason: separated quotes
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  #113  
Old 03-06-2012
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Re: A cast of characters - Rocna plot continues

BentSailor
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Hi Bent sailor.

Patents unless you have been involved with patents, deigns and the like it is a minefield, unfortunately without them who would want to be enthusiastic about inventing or developing anything.

Certainly not worth going into on a forum, we now need to move on from the past what was is and it can't be changed, you have all allowed me to set some records straight whether you believe me or not that’s up to you, but it felt great to have my say.

My last post was an effort, but if you guys generally would like information as to what many of you are seeking then please have a look at the proof test procedure, click on blog right hand top of page, if someone can upload it, I know I can’t, I would be more than happy to answer any questions, to date I have mentioned our web site several times simply to give you some answers but have not seen anybody respond, I would have thought seeing you are looking for information you guys would have been all over it.

Regards
Rex.
CEO Of Anchor right Australia.

Last edited by congo; 03-06-2012 at 08:29 AM.
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  #114  
Old 03-06-2012
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Re: A cast of characters - Rocna plot continues

Rex,

Good points were made about the financial decision of providing a warranty. To make the point further, when that infrequent event does occur, only a fraction of them will even pursue the warranty. They may not be original owners or so much time has passed, they forget there is one.

To turn the logic, it begs the question why all anchor companies don't provide a bending warranty? Does Sarca? Unless changed recently, Manson does not.
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  #115  
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Re: A cast of characters - Rocna plot continues

Minnewaska

Good question,if someone would like to take up my suggestion and try to down load the blog, super high holding power test procedure, many of your questions will be answerd,if you bend the shank on one of our anchors you take it back to the dealer and have it replaced (no charge) condittions,if it is the wrong size anchor for the boat then why should we. Simple conditions, now if it is a stainless steel anchor,(no waranty) reasons being, stainless steel has very poor flexing properties and will yield on impact,further,once bent you cannot straighten it as it will work harden, from my point of view very expensive,no warranty.

Now if we can offer to replace a bent anchor we must be confident the product will hold up,again check our proof testing for your answer.

Make no mistake the down side with stainless is made clear to the purchaser before taking delivery of the anchor, if they still want it then we supply it, the point I was makinfg in an earlier thread was this, there are many cheap anchors on the market that will infact break, cheap cast is a good example, if it is a proven tested design the chance of breaking, well I have never heard of one as they are all designed to yield bend, not break.

Look I don't think there is much more I can help you with but if there is email or pm me to let me know.

Thanks guys, over and out.

Regards.

Rex.

CEO of Anchor Right Auastralia. l

Last edited by congo; 03-06-2012 at 09:38 AM.
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  #116  
Old 03-06-2012
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Re: A cast of characters - Rocna plot continues

Proof & Field Testing of SARCA Anchors (from Anchor Right site)
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  #117  
Old 03-06-2012
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Re: A cast of characters - Rocna plot continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
To turn the logic, it begs the question why all anchor companies don't provide a bending warranty?
Our Lifetime Parts Replacement Warranty covers any type of damage to the anchor. Parts are replaced for free, customer only pays shipping & handling, which is nominal since the parts are relatively light and we ship them via the US Postal Service.

Damaged parts do not have to be returned, and it does not matter if the customer is the original owner, or if he has a sales receipt, or if he sent in a warranty registration card.

Safe anchoring,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors

P.s. Good to see Rex aboard on this forum. A real gentleman and an innovative, highly-skilled anchor designer / manufacturer.
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  #118  
Old 03-06-2012
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Re: A cast of characters - Rocna plot continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by congo View Post
.....Look I don't think there is much more I can help you with but if there is email or pm me to let me know.

Thanks guys, over and out.
Many thanks for all the input, it was very helpful.
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  #119  
Old 03-06-2012
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Re: A cast of characters - Rocna plot continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianFortress View Post
Our Lifetime Parts Replacement Warranty covers any type of damage to the anchor. Parts are replaced for free, customer only pays shipping & handling, which is nominal since the parts are relatively light and we ship them via the US Postal Service.

Damaged parts do not have to be returned, and it does not matter if the customer is the original owner, or if he has a sales receipt, or if he sent in a warranty registration card.

Safe anchoring,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors

P.s. Good to see Rex aboard on this forum. A real gentleman and an innovative, highly-skilled anchor designer / manufacturer.
Thank you, Brian. I do have one of your anchors. Good to know.
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  #120  
Old 03-06-2012
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Re: A cast of characters - Rocna plot continues

I think I have exhausted the Anchor Right website and I have to say it is impressive, but not in slick sort of way. Their test rig appears to be a very legitimate set up to compare anchors side by side. Seeing their anchor hold when others drag is pretty eye opening. Lets hope as (if?) they expand to the US market they avoid the pitfalls that snagged Rocna. I don't think I could purchase an anchor manufactured in China at this time. Surely they are capable of some pretty sophisticated manufacturing, but I think the specification writer and the QC people have to be very smart (which maybe Rocna was not?).
If anyone figures out how to get their hands on one, let us know.
John
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