A cast of characters - Rocna plot continues - Page 2 - SailNet Community

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  #11  
Old 01-19-2012
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Don't really have the time to waste anyway, but that link of yours to the Yachting & Boating forums gives me a "permission denied" result, smack.

Edit: Looks like the mods over there are taking it down temporarily to sort out some rules issues. Goes to prove the debacle continues even to this very minute!
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  #12  
Old 01-20-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
Psssttt...wanna buy a Pinto?

My guess is they'll sell anything people will buy. They sell all manner of cheaply made short lifespan hardware, for example. As far as disclosing why anchors were returned, in this litigious day and age I imagine there is no retailer on the planet who will divulge WHY items are returned if there is any possibility of liability.

There are two possibilities: 1. West Marine was telling me the truth when they said they had no failures or 2. The were lying and actually had Rocnas returned because of structural failures.

Forgetting about any altruistic motives, I don't think that scenario #2 makes any business sense. After their announcement they probably had very little risk of liability. They laid the facts out about the steel spec issues and offered to accept any returns as they would probably have done prior to the announcement.

Now assume they actually had many anchors returned because of structural failures. If that were the case they would more likely would have issued a recall of the anchors (as they have done with other products) rather than just an announcement as they did.

Further assume they lied to any customer that asked about whether there were any failures. You really think they are going to increase their liabilty risk by lying? Now when there is a high risk of failure and liability for property damage and maybe personal injury and loss of life you think they are going to lie when in all likelyhood they could go after Rocna and recover their costs for returned anchors, when this is one model of many, many anchors they sell?

All companies are in business to make money but the successful ones usually take a long term approach in their business model.
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  #13  
Old 01-20-2012
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Wow, a big company wouldn't LIE to you would they?
Oh no. Of course not. They will misinform, obfuscate, fudge, restate, hedge, disclaim, disavow and befuddle, but never, ever lie.
Tehir employees, might. Hence the commonly used phrases "That's why ____ doesn't work here anymore," " ____ wasn't authorized to divulge that information," and "I don't know what you're talking about, _____ doesn't have anything to do with that department."

West marine has dozens of stores, hundreds of salespeople and all sorts of info that either doesn't get sent to their head office, or is lost in the info deluge sent to their head office, so a blanket denial from a head office voice on the phone doesn't hold much credibility.
In fact, they may not know why anchors are returned. The staff at the store level either may not include that information on the return ticket, or the return ticket may not be sent upstream, or if the system is computerized utilizing dropdown menus and limited choice options, the store staff may not be able to specify "didn't meet steel spec" in the "why was item returned?" box.
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  #14  
Old 01-20-2012
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Drifting slightly, but curious to know if anyone had a Rocna fail (break) under actual anchoring conditions?

Dabnis
Anyone?

Dabnis
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  #15  
Old 01-20-2012
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Originally Posted by dabnis View Post
Anyone?

Dabnis
I've never heard of that happening. Just bending. Also, if I recall correctly, someone mentioned that the bending difference between the suspect and spec'd steels was about 48%. In other words - the highly spec'd stuff would still bend - with not all that much more force applied.

I think the bottom line is that Craig pissed off the whole sailing world for a long time, then when everyone found out about the skullduggery with the specs, those folks in the sailing world decided that only complete annihilation of the brand would be enough to satisfy them. And now the skullduggery has shifted to them.

Plenty of blame to go around.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 01-20-2012 at 03:00 PM.
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  #16  
Old 01-20-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
The "best" and most exhaustive thread I've found on this is over on YM:

Rocna Anchors acquired by Canada Metal Pacific - Yachting and Boating World Forums

And now the dude he burned in that article is posting - mad as hell.

If you have the next 2 years off, you might want to read it. It is entertaining and eye-opening to see how people get to a point where they want to believe something so badly in order to maintain an agenda, they disregard all common sense.

It seems that's where we are now in the whole Rocna thing. But what a freakin' soap opera!
155 Pages. Holy Sh!t

How do you guys find the time to keep up with all these forums?
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  #17  
Old 01-20-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I've never heard of that happening. Just bending. Also, if I recall correctly, someone mentioned that the bending difference between the suspect and spec'd steels was about 48%. In other words - the highly spec'd stuff would still bend - with not all that much more force applied.

I think the bottom line is that Craig pissed off the whole sailing world for a long time, then when everyone found out about the skullduggery with the specs, those folks in the sailing world decided that only complete annihilation of the brand would be enough to satisfy them. And now the skullduggery has shifted to them.

Plenty of blame to go around.
You may be right, mad at Craig and took it out on the anchor. I wonder if any other similar anchors have been bent under actual anchoring conditions?

Dabnis
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  #18  
Old 01-20-2012
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Originally Posted by JimMcGee View Post
155 Pages. Holy Sh!t

How do you guys find the time to keep up with all these forums?
I'm 11 years old and don't go to school because my parents are drunks. I just eat Twinkies and surf the web all day.

JimMcGee and davidpm like this.
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  #19  
Old 01-20-2012
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Just posted by Grant:

BYM Product and Industry News

Good to see CMP doing the right thing.
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Old 02-25-2012
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Once again, its time to decide if I'm upgrading the hook during Spring commissioning.. So where are we now on Rocna quality? ( I have no interest in the scandals of the past )

It seems the new owners have upgraded their warranty against bending, in addition to breaking. I'm not sure if anyone else does that. It is still a little unclear to me whether the RINA certification is suspect and it seems additional certification is still underway.

The bigger question in my mind is whether I can be satisfied that an anchor I buy today was made under the new owner's watch or old inventory? Or whether the new owner is considered trustworthy. It's clear to me that even old inferior inventory isn't going to fail unless under heavy stress, but that's not when I want to find out.

I probably would have just gone with Manson Supreme by now, but neither anchor is a beauty. I think the Rocna looks cleaner than a Manson, as picky as that is.
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