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  #21  
Old 02-25-2012
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Minne - from everything I've read on the forums, things are improving on the Rocna front, but there are still some issues. They seem to have greatly expanded their warranty coverage to include bending, etc. But from what I've seen, they're also still using the "weaker" steel (620) instead of the higher-strength stuff that was originally spec'd and marketed.

So, if it were me, I'd look at the cost difference between the Manson and the Rocna, and the steel specs of each. Then evaluate the warranty of each in light of that.

As for the RINA certification - that all just seems to be a mess...especially with Grant's claim that he bribed RINA officials to move the process along. Who knows what to believe on it at this point?
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  #22  
Old 02-25-2012
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Smack,

They intend to keep the lower grade steel? I know I can go look it up, but do you know if Manson uses a higher grade than 620, or is Rocna just not living up to its original spec and they've determined it isn't necessary?

How can I tell if I'm getting old inventory?

As you can tell, aesthetically, I would prefer a Rocna. But that's a pretty slim margin. If I went to a shrink, they would probably say I just don't want to part with the grand.
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  #23  
Old 02-25-2012
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I'm as confused as anyone - but from what I've been reading in the forums, it seems that Rocna is sticking with the lower than originally spec'd 620, and Manson has been and is still using the bis80 (or whatever, I can't remember all the terms), which was the original Rocna spec. But you really should check for yourself - because it's hard to know what to believe.

The best resource I've found on the whole story is at YBW here:

Rocna Anchors acquired by Canada Metal Pacific - Page 170 - Yachting and Boating World Forums

The poster "neeves" is a journalist who has done a story on them for some mag. He seems to have the most accurate info on the steels and warranty issues. It's a crazy long thread with the typical crap slinging - so just start at the end and go back a few pages to find out what's up.

At this point, to me, it just comes down to price and confidence.
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  #24  
Old 02-26-2012
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When it comes right down to it, why would anyone pay more for a Rocna? I considered it once but that was before Craig Smith's trash taking got on my nerves to the point I saved money and got a manson Surpreme instead. And this was before all the stuff about the metal came to light.

I feel the Rocna is probaby still a good anchor. But just don't know anyone would buy it instead of a Manson Surpreme.
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Originally Posted by Don0190 View Post
When it comes right down to it, why would anyone pay more for a Rocna? I considered it once but that was before Craig Smith's trash taking got on my nerves to the point I saved money and got a manson Surpreme instead. And this was before all the stuff about the metal came to light.

I feel the Rocna is probaby still a good anchor. But just don't know anyone would buy it instead of a Manson Surpreme.
I think the Rocna looks cleaner on the bow, albeit by a small margin. I also like the idea of a single cast fluke, rather than two side welded pieces for longevity. That's probably also minor. I do not like the big blue sticker on the Manson, nor the long slot in the shank. Again, aesthetics.

I have no interest in Rocna's past, as the free market seems to have settled the score. I'm only interested in whether the new Canadian owner is going to make a reliable product. Their upgraded warranty speaks to their confidenc., We'll see.

Admittedly, I'm still struggling, but I want the Rocna. I just want to know it will be reliable.

If one wants to make emotional decisions based on the behavior of prior owner's relatives, that seems nullified by the new ownership to me. The fact that the Manson is a knockoff will never change. I don't hold it against them, but would certainly understand if someone did.
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  #26  
Old 02-26-2012
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The Manson Surpreme isn't a knockoff. It's been pretty well established if you do your homework on something other than the Rocna hype site.

And I didn't make an emotional decision based on Craig Smith. What CS did was get me to look harder at the Ronca and and Manson Surpreme and in the end there was no reason to pay a premium price for a Ronca just because they had a stronger group of marketers to spin their story. I got a Manson Surpreme because I believed it to be at least as good if not better an anchor than the Ronca and got a 60# Manson Surpreme for less than a 45# Ronca than we now know didn't even meet spec.
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I think the Rocna looks cleaner on the bow, albeit by a small margin. I also like the idea of a single cast fluke, rather than two side welded pieces for longevity. That's probably also minor. I do not like the big blue sticker on the Manson, nor the long slot in the shank. Again, aesthetics.

I have no interest in Rocna's past, as the free market seems to have settled the score. I'm only interested in whether the new Canadian owner is going to make a reliable product. Their upgraded warranty speaks to their confidenc., We'll see.

Admittedly, I'm still struggling, but I want the Rocna. I just want to know it will be reliable.

If one wants to make emotional decisions based on the behavior of prior owner's relatives, that seems nullified by the new ownership to me. The fact that the Manson is a knockoff will never change. I don't hold it against them, but would certainly understand if someone did.
Michael on Sequitur has been using a Rocna and he sure seems to like its performance in some pretty challenging places. Though I seem to recall he might have lost it recently in some sketchy anchorage. I can't remember for sure.
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Michael on Sequitur has been using a Rocna and he sure seems to like its performance in some pretty challenging places. Though I seem to recall he might have lost it recently in some sketchy anchorage. I can't remember for sure.
Yes, I think he couldn't get it to release and had to cut it off due to some oncoming danger. Although, I thought he returned for it.
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Old 02-26-2012
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I think you are right. I seem to remember that he dropped the rode with a buoy attached. Not that rare an event; I have even done it. Could be a case of the anchor holding too well (well probably not), likely jammed under a rock. Those can be very hard to get out without a diver at times.
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Old 02-27-2012
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Quote:
The Manson Surpreme isn't a knockoff. It's been pretty well established if you do your homework on something other than the Rocna hype site.- Don 0190
Sounds like you have an ax to grind with your obvious bias against the Rocnas.

I did my "homework" when the ROCNA originally came out I bought one. It wasnt about the hype. There was no Manson Spreme to buy. Magically 6 months later the Manson appears. Company making them/ designer were geographically close to ROCNA of new Zealand whwere my anchor was imported from. Looks kind of similar doesnt it, ROCNA came first...hmmmmmmmm. Poor argument on your part. It was a knockoff.

Quote:
I saved money and got a manson Surpreme instead
.

Go figure the knock off is cheaper. Knockoffs almost always are cheaper. Another specious statement

Not withstanding the idiot who ran the company into the ground with his boastfull arrogant nature, not withstanding the idiot who cheapened the steel, or who attacked othe anchor companies which have since occured...at the time the ROCNA was the only one and was the premier new design anchor.

I still remember Mainesails tests, and since I have purchased one I can unequivically say it has been the best all round anchor I have ever had. ( Bottom conditions dictate that some anchors are specifically better in specific conditions, but if I was to carry on main on it would be this design). I sleep well at anchor now.

Would I buy on now with its technical issues...no I would proably get the Supreme although I have never liked the hole in the shank.

Please do not try and come with revisionist history, as history is just that...a record... not a fantasy to prove a point.

Dave
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