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  #31  
Old 01-23-2012
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Thank you David! Perhaps my wife can download that onto her Kindle!

It would make good / valuable reading while we're flying to California this weekend.

Thanks again!
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  #32  
Old 01-23-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post
Doug,

I'm glad to see that you are back, and that my offer to get you involved with the Pelagic sailing club has been followed up on!

RE your next boat: May I suggest a Shannon?
Thank you.

We went aboard a Shannon at a Fort Lauderdale Boat Show a couple years ago, and were very impressed with their quality.

But, from what we've found, they are rather expensive, and we didn't see any large enough to accomodate our liveaboard / chartering needs.

As much as many people can enjoy living aboard high 30 - mid 40 foot sailboats, after 11 years on a Gulfstar 50, we are really looking forward to a more spacious interior and deck space.

And, on the monetary issues, we want to be aboard a sailboat ASAP, instead of working for a couple of years to save up more hundreds of thousands of dollars, and we would rather not have a loan to pay.

So..... as much as we know there are better boats, we're sort of forced toward the Taiwanese boats, built in the 1980s, which at least offer the spaciousness we're looking forward to, and they generally have solid wood interiors which can be restored. As opposed to the veneered interiors which aren't worthy or able to be sanded and varnished to restore their interiors.

If on the other hand you know of a 50 + foot Shannon, for sale at a price well under $200K, (our upper limit is about $150K), we sure would be interested. Their interior quality clearly supports restoration, but, again, I haven't seen any 50 + footers. I am just not aware of that size Shannons existing....?

We are also focused on ketches! Are there any Shannons which are ketch rigged?

And, just to further complicate the issues, either a pilot house cockpit or center cockpit configuration is also high on our list of requirements, again, because these allow the interior space, (especially the aft cabin) to be "spacious", and they allow very good "from the cockpit" single handling of the rigging and line of sight steering, especially for a short guy like me....
:-)

All of this keeps bringing us back to the 1980s Taiwanese boats; but we sure are "open" to another brand which meets these requirements.

1. Spacious interior / pilot house or center cockpit
2. Price $150K or less
3. High quality wood work
4. Ketch rigged
5. Sweeping deck would also be welcomed, vs. those (like the Gulfstar) whose cabin tops sticks out from the deck.

Of course, we value a lot of other items like good engines with low hours with 120 HP or more, bow thruster, full keel(?), furling main / mizzen, at least 2 heads / room for a washer & dryer, stall shower, B&G equipment, auto helm, radar.... then such extravagances as forward seeing sonar, granite / marble counters :-) electric toilets, watermaker, generator, etc.

So, "shopping" for this, within our budget is challenging.
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  #33  
Old 01-23-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonSailor View Post
Thanks for the tip on your presentation at the Pelagic club meeting in May. Looking forward to hearing more and meeting a local Sailnet'er
I'm putting together a Power Point presentation, with lots of pictures! I hope / trust that my "story" will be entertaining and perhaps might even offer some valuable things to think about when making a long passage for "pleasure" amongst a family setting.

I will look forward to meeting you too!
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  #34  
Old 01-23-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
Welcome back Doug.


I'm not surprised that all the yachties wanted to talk with y'all about was the disaster. I've only ever met one person who has swum from a lifeboat to a freighter (you belong to a small fraternity my friend). He was a doctor that I worked briefly with. What did I do when he told me that he sunk his boat offshore and was rescued by a tanker? I asked him when and where I could meet him for the story and what the price was. It happened to be 4AM in the ER (and the price was coffee) as he was getting off shift, so I got up at 3AM to hear the story.

Why did I do that, when most other yachtie's stories I could take or leave? Because I'm obsessed with the possibility of things going wrong. We all are.

How many threads on sailnet are about safety gear, the best boat for offshore storms, storm tactics, drogues vs para-anchors etc etc etc.... Few threads on sailnet are about the perfect margarita recipe. Why? Because we're all obsessed with the big, scary, looming "What IF?"

Well "What IF" rarely happens, so we are left to obsess about it in the absence of first hand knowledge. "What IF" actually did happen to you, so everybody wants to hear all about it, and get first hand answers about their own personal fears from the oracle himself.

It's a pity that we're all so disaster obsessed, but we are. I think it's a cultural thing of our time. Too much TV and sensational news I supect. We're so much more obsessed and scared of the remotely possible events, like airplane crashes, terrorism, or rare plagues (but never real risk like high cholesterol or heavy car traffic) that it impedes our ability to enjoy life I fear.

In any case, to a sailor, you are like a 9/11 twin towers survivor is to an office drone. Everybody will want to hear your story, and everybody will want YOU to address THEIR version of what they fear most. Unless you want to keep the fact that you did have that experience quiet, you're going to run into the Harvard Club experience a lot.

I wish you well in your boat search. I hope that even though you lost your beloved Triumph, you can still enjoy the thrill and possibility of searching for, and falling in love with another boat again.

MedSailor
Lets' start with Thank You for that thoughtful comment! I do appreciate the consideration which inspired your words. And, I surely can't argue that what you said is absolutely acurate.

What I want to result from this is not to hide or keep this all to myself. Evelyn is more along those lines than I have ever been, but time should resolve that, theoretically.

I do want to be useful toward any improvement(s) which might be possible of deep sea rescues. The pure entertainment aspect of our story is not my goal. Though I well understand, as you also outlined, the lure of this to the majority of people. Even people without any marine experience are drawn to the stories of near death experiences. And that's just how it is.

In order to effect any improvements, I strongly suspect, I somewhat have to parlay the entertainment lure, toward the issues which could be improved.

You said at the beginning of your comment that a Dr. swam from a lifeboat to a freighter: "I've only ever met one person who has swum from a lifeboat to a freighter...."
Well, I'm not sure what you might have meant to specifically describe there, because I doubt he actually swam FROM a LIFEBOAT...?

But, the inclusion of a lifeboat into the rescue process would have been greatly appreciated by me.

Because I did not swim from a lifeboat to a tanker, or from the water to a lifeboat.
I swam from a trashed Gulfstar to a tanker; and in the last possible second, after over 3 hours of sinking below the waves, and miraculously rising into the air, again and again and again, I managed to make it to a life bouy, thrown from that tanker, and was pulled up to their deck from that.

The lifeboat(s) never left the deck.
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  #35  
Old 01-23-2012
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Good to hear from you again Doug. Unfortunately, voyages like yours grabs everybodyís attention whereas my (uneventful) crossing from Las Palmas to Grenada last December sparked just passing interest. When you go to your next talk, just put on your chain mail shark suit on and enjoy the feeding frenzy. Iím assuming that you are going to Southern California for your boat search. If you find should yourself up in the San Francisco area, let me know as Iíd love to buy you a drink at the bar. One of my friends has a Taswell 49 which he loves and is absolutely gorgeous, but he will be the first to admit, is not the fastest boat in the marina.
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  #36  
Old 01-23-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
Good to hear from you again Doug. Unfortunately, voyages like yours grabs everybodyís attention whereas my (uneventful) crossing from Las Palmas to Grenada last December sparked just passing interest. When you go to your next talk, just put on your chain mail shark suit on and enjoy the feeding frenzy. Iím assuming that you are going to Southern California for your boat search. If you find should yourself up in the San Francisco area, let me know as Iíd love to buy you a drink at the bar. One of my friends has a Taswell 49 which he loves and is absolutely gorgeous, but he will be the first to admit, is not the fastest boat in the marina.
Thank you George! I'll take an "uneventful" cruise any day over the one we had. :-)

Yes, we're landing at Long Beach, then visiting a few S. Cal., marinas.
Sadly, we won't be making it up to SF. Though I lived in that area throughout the 1980s! First Alameda, then up in Marin County.

I used to love to sail in that Bay! Quite challenging, always.

Considering we were in a Gulfstar 50 for 11 years, and now we're looking at the Taiwanese 50s, speed is surely not very high in our criteria.
We are liveaboards, so comfort is much higher, with high quality wood to keep me busy restoring, a sweeping deck, a center or pilot house cockpit, a large aft cabin a spacious main salon, with a good engine and rigg....
Oh, not to mention a stall shower, washer & dryer and granite counters. :-)

That last "requirement" is really an homage to a lot of comments in the S/V Triumph thread.
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  #37  
Old 01-23-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougSabbag View Post
Thank you David! Perhaps my wife can download that onto her Kindle!

It would make good / valuable reading while we're flying to California this weekend.

Thanks again!
OK, to all the Perry supporters, Evelyn downloaded his book to her Kindle and I will be happily reading it while on the plane to look at the various Taiwanese boats in Cal.

Thank you for the advice!
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  #38  
Old 01-23-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougSabbag View Post
Lets' start with Thank You for that thoughtful comment! I do appreciate the consideration which inspired your words. And, I surely can't argue that what you said is absolutely acurate.

What I want to result from this is not to hide or keep this all to myself. Evelyn is more along those lines than I have ever been, but time should resolve that, theoretically.

I do want to be useful toward any improvement(s) which might be possible of deep sea rescues. The pure entertainment aspect of our story is not my goal. Though I well understand, as you also outlined, the lure of this to the majority of people. Even people without any marine experience are drawn to the stories of near death experiences. And that's just how it is.

In order to effect any improvements, I strongly suspect, I somewhat have to parlay the entertainment lure, toward the issues which could be improved.

You said at the beginning of your comment that a Dr. swam from a lifeboat to a freighter: "I've only ever met one person who has swum from a lifeboat to a freighter...."
Well, I'm not sure what you might have meant to specifically describe there, because I doubt he actually swam FROM a LIFEBOAT...?

But, the inclusion of a lifeboat into the rescue process would have been greatly appreciated by me.

Because I did not swim from a lifeboat to a tanker, or from the water to a lifeboat.
I swam from a trashed Gulfstar to a tanker; and in the last possible second, after over 3 hours of sinking below the waves, and miraculously rising into the air, again and again and again, I managed to make it to a life bouy, thrown from that tanker, and was pulled up to their deck from that.

The lifeboat(s) never left the deck.
Doug,

Just to clarify, I wasn't trying to say that everyone wants to talk to you for their entertainment. I believe everyone wants to talk to you because you can answer questions that relate to their deep seeded fears.

As for my ER doctor acquaintance, I should have been more precise with my language. Indeed it was a liferaft that he swam from, not a lifeboat.. I'll relate the short version of his story here:

He was crossing the pacific single-handed to Hawaii on a well found steel sailboat (can't recall the rig or specifics). During the night he felt a sudden thump and rushed on deck. He couldn't see anything despite good lighting but he figured he had hit something. Quickly he realised he was taking on water fast. He had "several" bilge pumps and an engine driven pump but quickly was loosing ground with the water. It was about 2hours of searching for the leak (which he underscores is very hard to do once there is water IN the bilge) when he realized that he was going to have to abandon ship.

He was about 2-3 days sail from Hawaii and he readied his gear and raft, activated his epirb and continued trying to find/fix the leak. He truely did step up to his life raft when the decks were awash.

After a couple hours a C-130 came overhead and he radioed them by VHF. They told him that a ship was being re-directed to him and should be there soon. He waited in the raft for about 18hrs and the ship arrived. It had a hell of a time finding him in 6-8ft seas but the C-130 returned and was able to relay radio messages. For some reason he wasn't able to radio the ship directly, but he could radio the Coast Guard C-130 and they could relay.

The plan was to have the ship maneuver to hit his raft. The plan was to hit him forward of amidships of the freighter and a jacob's ladder was at or just aft of amidships. This is the part when he got scared as he realized that if the ship ran him over, he was toast, and if he contacted after the ladder, he would be in the prop and would be shark-kibble.

As the ship drew near, since he was unable to maneuver the inflatable raft, he took a gamble that he had to get to the jacob's ladder and swam from his raft to the ship, aiming to contact the hull about 1/3 from the bow, which he did. He slid along it until the ladder reached him, and climbed up. He said he wasn't scared during the sinking, or in the raft, but when he had to leave the raft and swim to the ship, he wasn't sure he would make it.

He did make it, and is still sailing. Never figured out what hit him, but it just goes to show that sometimes even the best preps (steel boat and engine-driven pump) can't stave off disaster. Sounds like his handheld VHF and Epirbs were lifesavers.

MedSailor

PS I wonder how much better off he would be with a maneuverable life-boat like the Portland Pudgy. Seems like you could intercept a nearly stationary ship under your own power, and multiple attempts could be made.
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  #39  
Old 01-23-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
Doug,

Just to clarify, I wasn't trying to say that everyone wants to talk to you for their entertainment. I believe everyone wants to talk to you because you can answer questions that relate to their deep seeded fears.

As for my ER doctor acquaintance, I should have been more precise with my language. Indeed it was a liferaft that he swam from, not a lifeboat.. I'll relate the short version of his story here:

He was crossing the pacific single-handed to Hawaii on a well found steel sailboat (can't recall the rig or specifics). During the night he felt a sudden thump and rushed on deck. He couldn't see anything despite good lighting but he figured he had hit something. Quickly he realised he was taking on water fast. He had "several" bilge pumps and an engine driven pump but quickly was loosing ground with the water. It was about 2hours of searching for the leak (which he underscores is very hard to do once there is water IN the bilge) when he realized that he was going to have to abandon ship.

He was about 2-3 days sail from Hawaii and he readied his gear and raft, activated his epirb and continued trying to find/fix the leak. He truely did step up to his life raft when the decks were awash.

After a couple hours a C-130 came overhead and he radioed them by VHF. They told him that a ship was being re-directed to him and should be there soon. He waited in the raft for about 18hrs and the ship arrived. It had a hell of a time finding him in 6-8ft seas but the C-130 returned and was able to relay radio messages. For some reason he wasn't able to radio the ship directly, but he could radio the Coast Guard C-130 and they could relay.

The plan was to have the ship maneuver to hit his raft. The plan was to hit him forward of amidships of the freighter and a jacob's ladder was at or just aft of amidships. This is the part when he got scared as he realized that if the ship ran him over, he was toast, and if he contacted after the ladder, he would be in the prop and would be shark-kibble.

As the ship drew near, since he was unable to maneuver the inflatable raft, he took a gamble that he had to get to the jacob's ladder and swam from his raft to the ship, aiming to contact the hull about 1/3 from the bow, which he did. He slid along it until the ladder reached him, and climbed up. He said he wasn't scared during the sinking, or in the raft, but when he had to leave the raft and swim to the ship, he wasn't sure he would make it.

He did make it, and is still sailing. Never figured out what hit him, but it just goes to show that sometimes even the best preps (steel boat and engine-driven pump) can't stave off disaster. Sounds like his handheld VHF and Epirbs were lifesavers.

MedSailor

PS I wonder how much better off he would be with a maneuverable life-boat like the Portland Pudgy. Seems like you could intercept a nearly stationary ship under your own power, and multiple attempts could be made.
MedSailor!

I wasn't referring to you when I inidicated many people are entertained by the stories of people in harms' way. It is a generic / human characteristic well documented, for instance by the spectators at car races, and many likewise dangerous sports.

And thank you for the story of your friend! I can really associate with his trepidation / anxiety at leaving the raft to swim to the ladder of the rescue boat. At least they had a ladder hanging down. The Kim Jacob did not.

But, I sure would be scared sh_tless swimming right up to the freighter, knowing that overshooting the target ladder, would be quite disasterous.

Swimming around these freighters / tankers is not a comfortable activity, but is only inspired when all else has failed.

As much as I agree that ideally his raft would have had its' own power, but the other alternative would have been if the freighter would deploy a lifeboat to pick him up. Which I might assume they had at least one of.

I have been wondering if perhaps some AMVER participant training of how to use their lifeboats, and how to bring them to their own stern and tow them if there is an issue with retrieving them using the deployment cables.
Coupled with the establishment of a Sea Rescue Reward Fund, wherein sailors / civilians contribute, much like to AAA or SeaTow, to a central fund which pays any merchant marines who conduct a lifeboat deployment and retrieve any sailors, a substantial, i.e., $5000.? reward.

Between the training and the reward, I would think a lot of their hesitation to deploy what would clearly greatly improve the rescue / transfer process: their lifeboat(s), would be resolved.

Just a thought.......
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Old 01-24-2012
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Doug...

Probably not even close to what you're looking for. But I saw this on craig's list and thought of you...

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