MOB doing 20 knots in 30 knots + recovery - Page 3 - SailNet Community
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post #21 of 31 Old 01-26-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamLein View Post
I feel like by the time they got the chute in and under control they would already have been blown quite a ways downwind from the skipper, and might not be able to heave-to- very well with just a reefed main anyway. It would be hard to throw a line upwind and they'd probably have to make way upwind one way or the other.
Adam

I think that they had the jib up.

Typical downwind MOB, as you mentioned, involves getting some distance between you and the MOB, then coming about and sailing back on a close haul, close reach with the sails sheeted in as much as fesaible.. In the CYA method you come up to windward and luff the sheets. In the ISPA method you come up to windward, sail past and then heave-to.

I like the ISPA method as you are always in control of the boat without a lot of luffing sails and flying sheets. It also works exceptionally well with a life-sling as you can just keep sailing around. Gybing is not an issue with the main sheeted in. You can leave the jib alone.

When I am teaching I teach both methods to cover the standards.

The spinnaker makes life way more complicated.

The MOB pole is a great datum point and should be deployed.
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post #22 of 31 Old 01-27-2012
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Don't you know, on youtube, everyone is sailing in 30 knots...
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post #23 of 31 Old 01-27-2012
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With a main reefed to that point in that wind this type of boat won't go to weather, the bow would just blow off. Oh itmight go upwind but it won't go through a tack.As far as wthe wind speed goes the boat has a small chute an deepreefed main ,is doing 19+, and driving the bow through waves. I don't think that you get that in only 20. How hard does it have to blow to get your boat up to that speed?

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post #24 of 31 Old 01-27-2012
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I buy 30 knots in that vid.


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post #25 of 31 Old 01-27-2012
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I wondered when someone was going to pick up on this

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Originally Posted by Boatsmith View Post
With a main reefed to that point in that wind this type of boat won't go to weather, the bow would just blow off. Oh itmight go upwind but it won't go through a tack.As far as wthe wind speed goes the boat has a small chute an deepreefed main ,is doing 19+, and driving the bow through waves. I don't think that you get that in only 20. How hard does it have to blow to get your boat up to that speed?

How many posters have sailed and owned boats that can sustain 20 knots, and have sailed many days in those conditions? I have. My last boat would really scoot. The most I ever saw was 24 knots. Though I have a cruising boat now, we are not talking about a cruising boat.

Heave to in 20-30 knots? Not in my worst nightmare. Too easy to get knocked flat with no way on. Too easy to blow right over the MOB. These boats have to keep moving.

Jib up? Yes, required to punch waves in that wind. Just a small jib will do.

Too fast on the apraoch? Remember, these boats are VERY manuverable and steer on a dime. There was no risk of hitting the MOB on that aproach and it gave them the best possible control. Also note that the boat quickly stopped when the sheets were eased. Little mass. I've done MOB drills on days like that, and the aproach was textbook, FOR THAT BOAT.

-----------

Good seamanship? Clearly they knew how to handle their boat. They really should have had the hatch closed; sport boats have sunk that way, one very near my home. We always closed up on blustery days. Harnesses? though I am a big believer, they are a challenge on small performance boats at speed. They are a challenge to crew agility, so I understand why they did not. Clearly sailing at 20 knots in a small boat without a chase boat is always asking for trouble. Things happen SO fast. I never pushed that sort of speed more than a few miles out; I want to be certain help was near and that and MOB search would be restricted in area.

But it's a thrill!

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post #26 of 31 Old 01-27-2012 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
I think that they had the jib up.
They did get it up but it was quite some time after the skipper went overboard. They were probably way downwind by then.

Quote:
Typical downwind MOB, as you mentioned, involves getting some distance between you and the MOB, then coming about and sailing back on a close haul, close reach with the sails sheeted in as much as fesaible.. In the CYA method you come up to windward and luff the sheets. In the ISPA method you come up to windward, sail past and then heave-to.
We learned the CYA version, essentially sailing a large right isosceles triangle (beam reach, broad reach, close reach). Unfortunately/surprisingly, the course did not involve any heaving-to, as I definitely think I would prefer that as a MOB technique. I remember being quite astonished at how we were willing to let sheets and sails flog around so violently (we had about 25 knot inflows in Howe Sound). I'm not sure we even discussed it, but it's been a while and maybe I'm just forgetting.

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The MOB pole is a great datum point and should be deployed.
Indeed; that might have cut some time off of their rescue.

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post #27 of 31 Old 01-27-2012
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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
They really should have got their weight aft, two guys were way too forward. You have to keep the stern down.

Also heaving-to with the MOB to leeward is a tactic I suggest everyone try.
Thanks Jack,

I'll have to try the heave-to method. It seems like it would work under bad conditions, and throwing a line downwind is actually possible.

A MOB pole is on my wish list. Right now, SOP is to throw everything that floats into the water and then continually point to the MOB. By the way, after one practice session, my kids named the practice MOB cushion "Manly". So it's "Manly overboard".

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Brad
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Last edited by Bene505; 01-27-2012 at 03:52 PM.
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post #28 of 31 Old 01-27-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bene505 View Post
Thanks Jack,

I'll have to try the heave-to method. It seems like it would work under bad conditions, and throwing a line downwind is actually possible.

A MOB pole is on my wish list. Right now, SOP is to throw everything that floats into the water and then continually point to the MOB. By the way, after one practice session, my kids named the practice MOB cushion "Manly". So it's "Manly overboard".

Regards,
Brad
Most folks heave-to too soon. Wait until the MOB is off your quarter. After heaving-to, line them up with your leeward shroud and drift in.

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post #29 of 31 Old 01-27-2012 Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Most folks heave-to too soon. Wait until the MOB is off your quarter. After heaving-to, line them up with your leeward shroud and drift in.
Just trying to picture this. So if we're coming up on the starboard tack, we leave the MOB to port, pass upwind of him until he's essentially directly downwind, tack over to port, and drift down and pick him up on the starboard side?

One thing I noticed on this video is that they approached on his lee side and then luffed basically right on top of him. Handled it well, but if he hadn't grabbed that rope right away (what if he was unconscious?) they might have been blown off downwind again, leaving him behind.

Come to think of it, I have a pretty strong memory of being taught to approach to leeward, maybe because you didn't want the wind to push the boat onto the MOB, and because if you drill it enough and are awesome and time your course changes perfectly, the method is supposed to bring you exactly to the right spot.

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post #30 of 31 Old 01-27-2012
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Some advantages of heaving to:
  • No need to adjust sails.
  • The MOB is protected from waves by the boat.
  • The boat will heel toward the MOB allowing a easier grab of the MOB.
  • The MOB will actually be pushed away slightly from the vessel. (Learned this rescuing a TV antennae off Cape Scott.)
  • If you miss, just turn the wheel hard over and circle back. With sails sheeted in, gybing is not a problem
  • Works well with a life sling.
  • Can be done by one person (upwind easier than downwind) - ISPA instructors have to do both single-handed.
  • No luffing sails and flying sheets.

I can do the CYA methods, I teach them, but prefer the heave to

The ISPA method is called heave-to, sail-to, heave-to. That is the sequence for upwind. It is similar to the quick stop, but the jib is kept up to allow the last heave-to.
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