Which Boats will People Consider Bluewater in 2025?

[NCC320]

When I see discussions of Bluewater Boats today, I almost always see boats listed from the 1970's. Those boats will be 50 yrs. old then. My guess is that most of these will not be suitable at that time because of wear and tear, or even available due to attriction.

What boats will those dreaming of bluewater passages being buying in the after market to fix up for such voyages?

My sense is that there are more people attempting such voyages today than in years past. At the same time, people seeking bluewater boats turn their noses up at most recent production boats. Additionally, the manufacturers seem to be concentrating on larger boats (45-65 ft.) which are going to be out of the price range for many beginning bluewater sailors.

One of the reasons that 1970's boats are thought to be extra capable is their heavy thick fiberglass hulls. One has to remember that fiberglass was just becoming widely in use and lots of engineering data and details were unknown, so the builders, just to make sure, made the hulls and rigging more robust. But now, much more is known about these materials and the forces that they will encounter in open ocean. My 1957 Chevy had thick metal parts and relatively little plastic. Todays cars have thinner metal and lot's more plastic.....they are better engineered today. My guess is that the same is true for sailboats, and that the thinner hulls of today's production boats are actually better engineered. I'll go a step further....in 2025, the bluewater boats in the after market will be the production boats of today...and not exclusively high end boats like Morris, Hinkley, etc. because people will not be able to afford them even in the after market. I think you will see people routinely making passages in today's Beneteaus, Hunters, and Catalinas (those built to CE A specifications).

What do the forum members think? What will people be using in 2025 in way of "blue water" boats in the after market. Forget the Swans, Oysters, etc...they are to big and to expensive for the average guy?

[KIVALO]

IPY's or Shannon's perhaps?

[VK540]

Gozzards

[killarney_sailor]

Westsail 32s.

I am at least semi-serious. I have little doubt that my boat will be going strong in 2025 and it will be 43 years old then - assuming that money is spent on it at a reasonable rate.

I think the problem in 2025 will be that there will not be nearly enough bluewater boats available. I am not impressed with CE A specs on a new boat let alone one that is 20 years old then. There are exceptions and the Gozzards, Shannons, and Island Packets (not a personal fave, not that it matters for this discussion) mentioned would be among them, but there will not be enough of these to go around.

[KIVALO]

Originally Posted by killarney_sailor

Westsail 32s.

I am at least semi-serious. I have little doubt that my boat will be going strong in 2025 and it will be 43 years old then - assuming that money is spent on it at a reasonable rate.

I think the problem in 2025 will be that there will not be nearly enough bluewater boats available. I am not impressed with CE A specs on a new boat let alone one that is 20 years old then. There are exceptions and the Gozzards, Shannons, and Island Packets (not a personal fave, not that it matters for this discussion) mentioned would be among them, but there will not be enough of these to go around.

I think your probably right. These days a solid and robust boat is somewhat of a specialty now.

[Boasun]

My Hardin45; She will be 45 at that time and she is a blue water sailboat. And I will be 85

[chrisncate]

Your boats are babies.. mines 47 now...

A- 30 ftw in 2025...

[SloopJonB]

Originally Posted by NCC320

When I see discussions of Bluewater Boats today, I almost always see boats listed from the 1970's. Those boats will be 50 yrs. old then. My guess is that most of these will not be suitable at that time because of wear and tear, or even available due to attriction.

With proper maintenance and periodic refits they will keep on going IMHO.

What boats will those dreaming of bluewater passages being buying in the after market to fix up for such voyages?

Many will be the same boats they're doing it with today. My boat is 42 this year and when I finish the refit it will be ready for many more. I've seen numerous Aeromarine and Pearson Bounties still rendering good service 50+ years later. The boats that are in production now will be no more or less suitable then, than they are now from a design & build quality perspective. They will obviously be a lot older and in need of those same refits and repairs but they will mostly be a lot harder to do - ever tried to find the cleat mounting bolts in a Hunter or Catalina etc? Good luck cutting up your liner.

One of the reasons that 1970's boats are thought to be extra capable is their heavy thick fiberglass hulls. One has to remember that fiberglass was just becoming widely in use and lots of engineering data and details were unknown, so the builders, just to make sure, made the hulls and rigging more robust.

That is a myth that is so old it should now be called an old wives tale. They weren't guessing at things, they knew the strength of FRP back in the 40's & 50's. Lots of sophisticated engineering testing was performed and recorded and strengths were known. - read "Heart of Glass" by Dan Spurr - he has lots of details on the history of that very thing. What was really going on was that materials were cheap so simple unskilled hand layup was the practical and economical way to go. Sort of like the cars in the 60's - gas was cheap so they made huge engines. My 02 Corvette puts out more horsepower than all but the hottest and rarest of the old ones and it is completely civilized, dependable and gets 30 MPG on the highway - the old ones that made more power got 8-10 MPG and were uncivilized, thinly disguised race cars. The difference? cheap or expensive gas, not ignorance.

What wasn't known was all the new processes and materials that have been developed since - I remember back in the early 70's being impressed when I saw a local builder vacuum bagging a cored race hull - Star Trek stuff then.

Obviously there have been incredible developments in lamination and ever increasing knowledge but that doesn't equate to "they didn't understand the material back then". I've even seen people claim that they didn't know what they were doing so they used wooden boat scantlings and simply substituted fiberglass - pure nonsense but it has taken on a life of its own. Proof that once something is on the Web it never dies.

[aeventyr60]

Aeventyr will still be out there, hopefully with me aboard! She will be middle aged at 48.

[NCC320]

Originally Posted by killarney_sailor

I think the problem in 2025 will be that there will not be nearly enough bluewater boats available. I am not impressed with CE A specs on a new boat let alone one that is 20 years old then. There are exceptions and the Gozzards, Shannons, and Island Packets (not a personal fave, not that it matters for this discussion) mentioned would be among them, but there will not be enough of these to go around.

I agree with you that there will not be enough Gozzards, Shannons, and Island Packets, etc. to go around. That's why I say that I think people will be using today's Beneteaus, Hunters, Catalina's for "bluewater" cruising. The heavier, more rugged boats won't be available to all who want them, especially to those trying to do it on a limited budget, so many, faced with the realities of go or no go, will opt for the next best thing in their range, which will be better maintained Beneteaus, Hunters, Catalinas, especially the larger sizes.

I also suspect what we think as being "bluewater" qualities or requirements will be changing with time. Look at what has happened with the ocean racers. Today's professional race boats are totally different from those of 40-50 years ago....new hull forms, keels, different sails and sail construction, electronics, etc. In my mind, the same thing is happening to the "bluewater" cruisers, it's just that a lot of we older generation aren't willing to face up to the fact that time and technology are passing us by. Look at the typical list of "bluewater" requirements today, and mostly you find a description of a boat in the 30-38 ft. range built in the 70's. Then look at the large, high end boats where cost is not a factor and where their draft and mast height require all extended passages to be off shore. Many of those so call requirements are missing. How can that be? Some say that the owners have professional crews to move the boats from place to place and that the owners just want creature comforts. Maybe true, but the crews at going offshore with the boats.