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  #51  
Old 02-24-2012
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Originally Posted by Telesail View Post
Let's add to the list those pesky farmers who have gone and got us addicted to Good quality affordable food, tech companies that have got us addicted to the Internet and other forms of low cost communication etc.

The notion that oil companies have enslaved us by reducing the cost of energy in real terms for most of 150+ years as part of some evil plot is just as ridiculous. Without the energy they provide, billions of the world's population would have starved or never been born. If we shut down the oil industry tomorrow, billions would certainly starve because agriculture would fall apart.

Perhaps you could tell me which billion you would choose to starve in order to allow you to shake off the shackles of oppression.

Sorry, chrisncate, this is not aimed at you personally as I know your comment was intended as tongue in cheek. But yours was just the latest example of this pervasive attitude that it is ok to bash the oil companies with cheap shots because it as a victimless crime..........
Lol, ok - the only choice is what have, and have had, regarding oil companies - or it's back to the stone age... and nothing else is even conceivable, got it. Talk about death btw? How much death do you think has already been wrought upon the earth by oil companies? Come on now..

You really ought to check out some other sources (Greg Pallast has a good book out right now) about what oils companies really are, and what they and have done to this planet. It doesn't matter anyway, no one is going to change minds here, me or you..

Pbeezer - I commented on it after the fact that every other cliche' about motorless had been brought up already (finishing up with the insurability question). Sometimes I really wonder how we got from where we once were as Americans to the point where we can't poop without insurance or a host of other safety nets. Don't worry, it's not a commentary on you or anyone personally, sometimes I just mouth off about our ankle chains (I'll try not to upset the other drones with my insolence anymore)
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  #52  
Old 02-24-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisncate View Post
.......You really ought to check out some other sources (Greg Pallast has a good book out right now) about what oils companies really are, and what they and have done to this planet. It doesn't matter anyway, no one is going to change minds here, me or you......
Thanks for the reference. Would that be Greg Palast, the peak oil prophet for whom rising global oil supply is an inconvenient truth, the Greg Palast who has proof that the 2000 election was stolen in Florida and the same Greg Palast that says that the Exxon Valdez disaster was caused by Exxon not fixing the radar to save money....?

You are right. Citing conspiracy theorists probably won't persuade me and if you find those folks authoritative then you will not be persuaded.

Let's assume you are right and that the oil industry has killed 100 million people (to the nearest 100 million equal to roughly the number of people killed in all the wars ever), please tell me who are the billion plus that you would decide to kill in order to throw off your shackles?
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  #53  
Old 02-24-2012
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Originally Posted by Telesail View Post
Thanks for the reference. Would that be Greg Palast, the peak oil prophet for whom rising global oil supply is an inconvenient truth, the Greg Palast who has proof that the 2000 election was stolen in Florida and the same Greg Palast that says that the Exxon Valdez disaster was caused by Exxon not fixing the radar to save money....?

You are right. Citing conspiracy theorists probably won't persuade me and if you find those folks authoritative then you will not be persuaded.

Let's assume you are right and that the oil industry has killed 100 million people (to the nearest 100 million equal to roughly the number of people killed in all the wars ever), please tell me who are the billion plus that you would decide to kill in order to throw off your shackles?
Conspiracy theorist? Well, that's certainly one take on traditional investigative journalism..

I noticed you don't actually dispute anything you referenced above.. ? Also worth noting you don't provide an alternative for news/reference/journalism/facts regarding what we are now discussing.. ?
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not even worth the effort......... ttfn
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Old 02-24-2012
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Originally Posted by chrisncate View Post
I commented on it after the fact that every other cliche' about motorless had been brought up already (finishing up with the insurability question). Sometimes I really wonder how we got from where we once were as Americans to the point where we can't poop without insurance or a host of other safety nets.
The use of "cliche" to describe others' opinions implies that they are "trite", "hackneyed", or basically worn out themes--per Merriam-Webster. Sounds like name-calling rather that reasonable discourse.

What is wrong with raising the actuarial aspect of insurability? My point was that there may be objective data out there that you might use to determine your level of risk if you go off engineless. I thought that was a reasonable suggestion. If the actuarial data establishes an unreasonable risk that would make you uninsurable, wouldn't you want to know that? At the data level, it doesn't matter whether or not you actually buy insurance.

At another level, you might interpret from the price of a liability policy how much of a risk to other folks you represent. If you have modest resources, as your story implies, I doubt that you can demonstrate financial responsibility without insurance, should you suffer a major disaster involving other people. Conceivably you might be forced to abandon your boat some day. I hope you've got a contingency plan to cover salvage costs.

There is a problem with derelict boats in this country. Too often the dream dies--for any number of reasons--and a public nuisance is created. The public invariably pays to pick up the pieces, including legal costs to enable disposal of abandoned or unseaworthy boats.
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Old 02-24-2012
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not even worth the effort......... ttfn
I think Telesail has a point, if material from Greg Palast is the point of departure.

Besides, this forum is about engineless sailing, isn't it?
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Old 02-24-2012
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I am not towing him- he will sail on his own. Not difficult to get out of MDR that way. I'm merely escorting. As for the insurance question..... I'll ask him.
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