Gun question - Page 5 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree31Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #41  
Old 02-27-2012
neverknow's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Indiana
Posts: 295
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 4
neverknow is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMFL View Post
A sunk sailboat in the ocean has what, 5,000 lbs of lead in it plus fuel, oil, plastic. etc. etc? While of course it's not planned to sink a sailboat in the middle of the ocean, it happens. As a sailor and a user of the ocean, maybe you should think about that and "properly" dispose of your boat before it happens to sink.

As a side note, what is the ecological effect of adding a few ounces of lead in the ocean? I don't know (as I suspect you don't either) but I'm guessing..... NOTHING! Lame argument...
Damn someone beat me to it again. You are right a few ozs of lead in the ocean will not hurt a thing. This sort like the argument that carbon (man made) is causing the earth to either burn or freeze depending on which idiot you listen to. Than a single volcano explodes with the equivalency of 100's of yrs carbon in just a few minutes. Us humans are a natural part of the world we live in, it's just some choose to not acknowledge that fact.

On to the OP question. If it were me I'd worry more about the trip out and back in. It seems most of the time we always get stopped by either the Sheriff or the coast guard and they want to search us. Most of the time they are just bored with nothing to do so they stop us. I wonder what types of questions they'd have for me if the found a half dozen guns on board?

30 yrs ago we used to walk down the country roads carry our guns on our backs and no one ever cared. Today they'd probably call SWAT on me...lol
smurphny likes this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #42  
Old 02-27-2012
MedSailor's Avatar
Closet Powerboater
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Anacortes PNW
Posts: 2,316
Thanks: 50
Thanked 47 Times in 39 Posts
Rep Power: 7
MedSailor is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by beej67 View Post
I've been fortunate enough to acquire a couple new firearms for Christmas, and don't have a great place to shoot them. I'd like to sail out into the gulf past the 12 mile limit and shoot beer bottles off a float. What sort of pesky rules and regulations might I run afoul of while doing so?
WHY has everyone missed the most important question to ask the OP here?

What kind of guns did you get for christmas?

MedSailor
jrd22 and FSMike like this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I have a sauna on my boat, therefore I win.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #43  
Old 02-27-2012
MedSailor's Avatar
Closet Powerboater
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Anacortes PNW
Posts: 2,316
Thanks: 50
Thanked 47 Times in 39 Posts
Rep Power: 7
MedSailor is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by neverknow View Post
...If it were me I'd worry more about the trip out and back in. It seems most of the time we always get stopped by either the Sheriff or the coast guard and they want to search us. Most of the time they are just bored with nothing to do so they stop us. I wonder what types of questions they'd have for me if the found a half dozen guns on board?

From personal experience I can tell you exactly how it went. Here is an excerpt from about 5 minutes into a perfectly normal coast guard boarding.

CG: "Is this vessel registered in your name.?

Me: "Of course. Would you like to see the paperwork?"

CG: "No that's okay, we'll look at all that in a minute. Do you have anything
that could be used as a weapon aboard?"

Me: "Yes, I have a .45 caliber handgun on my right hip."

CORUS of CG enlistedmen: "PUT YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR! NOW! NOW! HANDS! HANDS WHERE I CAN SEE THEM! TURN AROUND! TURN AROUND NOW!..."


I tell you these guys watch too much TV. It was a little scary how scared of me they suddenly got. A bunch of 20somethings all yelling at me and pointing guns at me. Sheesh.... if I was going to have gone all "somali pirate" on them, I wouldn't have been pleasantly cooperating with them and told them where my concealed weapon was. That was lost on them however. They finally let me go after they realized that I was doing NOTHING wrong and that all papers were in order.

This was quite a few years ago. Hopefully now that 9/11 is a little further in the past they're a little less edgy out there....

MedSailor
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I have a sauna on my boat, therefore I win.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #44  
Old 02-27-2012
neverknow's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Indiana
Posts: 295
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 4
neverknow is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
CG: "No that's okay, we'll look at all that in a minute. Do you have anything
that could be used as a weapon aboard?"

Me: "Yes, I have a .45 caliber handgun on my right hip."

CORUS of CG enlistedmen: "PUT YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR! NOW! NOW! HANDS! HANDS WHERE I CAN SEE THEM! TURN AROUND! TURN AROUND NOW!..."

MedSailor
Sounds like a episode of COPS. LOL
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #45  
Old 02-27-2012
neverknow's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Indiana
Posts: 295
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 4
neverknow is on a distinguished road
Sidney, I'm guessing you had to have a carry permit??? Or if you live on your boat is that required for hand guns? What a mess everyone should be able to have a gun anywhere they want....lol
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #46  
Old 02-27-2012
Geoff54's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 690
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Geoff54 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMFL View Post
Funny. I won't go into "political leanings" but think a bit. A sunk sailboat in the ocean has what, 5,000 lbs of lead in it plus fuel, oil, plastic. etc. etc? While of course it's not planned to sink a sailboat in the middle of the ocean, it happens. As a sailor and a user of the ocean, maybe you should think about that and "properly" dispose of your boat before it happens to sink.


Then, and only then, feel free to come by and **** on my doorstep.

As a side note, what is the ecological effect of adding a few ounces of lead in the ocean? I don't know (as I suspect you don't either) but I'm guessing..... NOTHING!

Lame argument...
Beej76 ĖI may not agree with what you want to do but you have been reasonable and not tried to justify it by comparison with sinking boats. Sorry if I divert your thread but I canít ignore this.

GMFL - Oh dear, you have picked the wrong person.

Lame Argument?

First, let me say that I have no position or interest in the argument about the right to bear arms or gun control, etc., etc. I really, really donít care. What I do have an interest in is the amount of neurotoxin that is released into the environment, that I and everyone else is forced to live with. And within that topic, todayís subject is pollution caused by unregulated, poorly controlled and reckless use of the guns that people do own.

Weíll get to the ďfew ouncesĒ of lead our OP wants to discharge, in a minute. But, as with all widely dispersed pollution sources, itís not the small amount that one person pollutes, itís the cumulative effect of everyoneís pollution.

The U.S. produces about five billion rounds of small arms ammunition each year. That is between 50 and 100 million pounds of lead. Some is exported, some is hoarded but the vast majority of it ends up in the environment. And that doesnít even include the worst polluter per round, the good old 12-gauge cartridge.

But lets not stop there; Letís say that those estimates are wildly exaggerated. What do you want to say? How about a ninety percent exaggeration and just to be sure, lets base that 90% exaggeration on the lower figure. Thatís still 5 million pounds of lead. Do you really think that the loss of a handful of sailboats each year introduces more pollution? Your argument is a classic case of do what the hell you want and then try twist things to justify it. Or maybe you just wanted to attack me because I donít agree with your preconceived ideas.

Do I know the effect of a few ounces of lead? Actually I do. Letís take a couple of examples. ONE 2.2 caliber cartridge contains 2.6 grams of lead. That is enough lead to raise the lead level of 50,000 gallon of water above 15 parts per billion. Thatís the EPA limit for drinking water that many scientists believe should be lowered anyway. How about ONE 12 gauge cartridge - that could do the same thing to the drinking water for the entire city of Houston. Yeah! Lead is bad stuff.

How about the U.S. national bird, the bald eagle. Itís in very serious trouble. Want to know why? Primarily, lead poisoning. In one study, more than half the bald eagles tested had potentially fatal levels of lead poisoning. Also, over half the injured bald eagles taken to Iowa rehabilitation centers had lead shrapnel in their digestive tracts. Where do you suppose that came from? Oh yeah, must be my keel.

Want more?
Even by the most conservative estimates, the 1800 or so outdoor firing ranges in the U.S. introduce more lead into the environment than almost any other industry (metals mining might be the worst). Any business that releases more than 100 pounds of lead a year is required to report that Ė except firing ranges which are exempt. Firing ranges can be sited next to sensitive areas where the lead leaches into ground water, rivers, etc. and there is no regulation or control. Firing ranges can be sited next to schools where lead dust drifts across the schoolyard and there is no regulation or control. And thatís just the legal, responsible shooters. What about those that shoot bottles off of posts? And the small but significant number of duck hunters that still use lead shot because it works better. And who hasnít driven past a rural road sign full of holes?

Another fact? There is no safe level of lead for children. Iíd like you to see the neurological damage that lead can do to a child. You know what Ė letís not even go there or Iíll get really pissed off.

So I have a Lame Argument?? Maybe you should take your Large Member (talk about lame) and legal right to discharge lead over to a gun forum and stop polluting the waters. If you want to engage in a discussion about pollution, lets take it to Of Topic but unless you have a reasoned argument, stop wasting my time.

Anyone who wants to shoot and reduce the effect on the environment, you can look into copper bullets and steel shot. Not perfect but better than lead. Of course they are more expensive so nobody uses them unless required to Ėsuch is life.

And just for the record, abandoned boats do present a significant pollution hazard in some areas. Thatís abandoned boats, not the few accidental sinkings. And there are areas of boats ownership that we should be concerned about. But donít try to tell me I pollute more by going sailing than someone who discharges lead into the environment.

For those of you that think Iím wrong Ė keep licking the bullets.

In case itís of interest, here are some examples of lead content:
12 gauge shotgun shell Ė 28 grams, 22 caliber rifle Ė 2.6 grams, 9 mm Ė 7.5 grams, 45 caliber Ė 12.0 grams, 30-30 Winchester Ė 8.1 grams, 308 Winchester Ė 9.7 grams.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #47  
Old 02-27-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 2,005
Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 9
PalmettoSailor will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff54 View Post
Beej76 ĖI may not agree with what you want to do but you have been reasonable and not tried to justify it by comparison with sinking boats. Sorry if I divert your thread but I canít ignore this.

GMFL - Oh dear, you have picked the wrong person.

Lame Argument?

First, let me say that I have no position or interest in the argument about the right to bear arms or gun control, etc., etc. I really, really donít care. What I do have an interest in is the amount of neurotoxin that is released into the environment, that I and everyone else is forced to live with. And within that topic, todayís subject is pollution caused by unregulated, poorly controlled and reckless use of the guns that people do own.

Weíll get to the ďfew ouncesĒ of lead our OP wants to discharge, in a minute. But, as with all widely dispersed pollution sources, itís not the small amount that one person pollutes, itís the cumulative effect of everyoneís pollution.

The U.S. produces about five billion rounds of small arms ammunition each year. That is between 50 and 100 million pounds of lead. Some is exported, some is hoarded but the vast majority of it ends up in the environment. And that doesnít even include the worst polluter per round, the good old 12-gauge cartridge.

But lets not stop there; Letís say that those estimates are wildly exaggerated. What do you want to say? How about a ninety percent exaggeration and just to be sure, lets base that 90% exaggeration on the lower figure. Thatís still 5 million pounds of lead. Do you really think that the loss of a handful of sailboats each year introduces more pollution? Your argument is a classic case of do what the hell you want and then try twist things to justify it. Or maybe you just wanted to attack me because I donít agree with your preconceived ideas.

Do I know the effect of a few ounces of lead? Actually I do. Letís take a couple of examples. ONE 2.2 caliber cartridge contains 2.6 grams of lead. That is enough lead to raise the lead level of 50,000 gallon of water above 15 parts per billion. Thatís the EPA limit for drinking water that many scientists believe should be lowered anyway. How about ONE 12 gauge cartridge - that could do the same thing to the drinking water for the entire city of Houston. Yeah! Lead is bad stuff.

How about the U.S. national bird, the bald eagle. Itís in very serious trouble. Want to know why? Primarily, lead poisoning. In one study, more than half the bald eagles tested had potentially fatal levels of lead poisoning. Also, over half the injured bald eagles taken to Iowa rehabilitation centers had lead shrapnel in their digestive tracts. Where do you suppose that came from? Oh yeah, must be my keel.

Want more?
Even by the most conservative estimates, the 1800 or so outdoor firing ranges in the U.S. introduce more lead into the environment than almost any other industry (metals mining might be the worst). Any business that releases more than 100 pounds of lead a year is required to report that Ė except firing ranges which are exempt. Firing ranges can be sited next to sensitive areas where the lead leaches into ground water, rivers, etc. and there is no regulation or control. Firing ranges can be sited next to schools where lead dust drifts across the schoolyard and there is no regulation or control. And thatís just the legal, responsible shooters. What about those that shoot bottles off of posts? And the small but significant number of duck hunters that still use lead shot because it works better. And who hasnít driven past a rural road sign full of holes?

Another fact? There is no safe level of lead for children. Iíd like you to see the neurological damage that lead can do to a child. You know what Ė letís not even go there or Iíll get really pissed off.

So I have a Lame Argument?? Maybe you should take your Large Member (talk about lame) and legal right to discharge lead over to a gun forum and stop polluting the waters. If you want to engage in a discussion about pollution, lets take it to Of Topic but unless you have a reasoned argument, stop wasting my time.

Anyone who wants to shoot and reduce the effect on the environment, you can look into copper bullets and steel shot. Not perfect but better than lead. Of course they are more expensive so nobody uses them unless required to Ėsuch is life.

And just for the record, abandoned boats do present a significant pollution hazard in some areas. Thatís abandoned boats, not the few accidental sinkings. And there are areas of boats ownership that we should be concerned about. But donít try to tell me I pollute more by going sailing than someone who discharges lead into the environment.

For those of you that think Iím wrong Ė keep licking the bullets.

In case itís of interest, here are some examples of lead content:
12 gauge shotgun shell Ė 28 grams, 22 caliber rifle Ė 2.6 grams, 9 mm Ė 7.5 grams, 45 caliber Ė 12.0 grams, 30-30 Winchester Ė 8.1 grams, 308 Winchester Ė 9.7 grams.
So thousands of pounds of lead from a sunk boat is not a problem, but a few grams from a bullet or shotgun shell wreak havoc -- got it.
__________________
PalmettoSailor
s/v Palmetto Moon
1991 Catalina 36
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #48  
Old 02-27-2012
Geoff54's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 690
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Geoff54 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by midlifesailor View Post
So thousands of pounds of lead from a sunk boat is not a problem, but a few grams from a bullet or shotgun shell wreak havoc -- got it.
You are either reading selectively or your comprehension is lacking - been licking the bullets?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #49  
Old 02-27-2012
smurphny's Avatar
Over Hill Sailing Club
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Adirondacks NY
Posts: 2,627
Thanks: 47
Thanked 52 Times in 51 Posts
Rep Power: 6
smurphny is on a distinguished road
Using lead shot so birds don't eat lead pellets is a good idea. There ARE good ideas from environmental scientists. The problem lies in how the good ideas expand into stupid ideas, far removed from the simple solutions that work. If environmentalists have one fault it is that they project the ideas too far and try to apply them to everything and everybody with intrusive Big Brother watching over it. Common sense gets thrown out the window and religious fervor takes its place as populist nonsense prevails.
__________________
Alberg 35: With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #50  
Old 02-27-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 8,628
Thanks: 10
Thanked 109 Times in 104 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
The argument over introducing lead into seawater is ignoring the fact that seawater already has lead in it. Doh!

1000 sailors could fire lead shot 12 miles from shore for the next 100 years and you would never detect the difference.

This is a question of safety. Rifles and pistols should have a proper backstop when practicing or your range should be positively cleared to the effective distance of the weapon. The later is not possible from a sailboat, as others could approach through sun glare or while you are distracted. Shotguns only have an effective range of 70 to 100 yards and full range of 150 to 200 yards. That is more easily managed.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Simple question, but still a question:keel repair eckcn17 Gear & Maintenance 9 03-16-2011 11:01 AM
The $64,000.00 question Maverick1958 Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 12 02-01-2010 11:47 AM
c&c 30 mki a,b,c,etc.. question Csobanc Boat Review and Purchase Forum 1 01-28-2010 08:11 PM
Keel/ballast Question?? Plus Extra Credit Question ;) stephenronning General Discussion (sailing related) 2 03-20-2009 07:25 AM
question spazomatic General Discussion (sailing related) 9 09-06-2007 10:33 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:07 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012