I'm hoping this is ok to post here, but since there is no vested interest in this project yet, I think it probably is. There is a website I stumbled on (although I can't remember how), and they had an idea of how to bring off-shore cruising and voyaging to more people by making a purpose-built boat for that purpose. Here is their idea: Adventure 40 Mail List Sign Up
You can read the full history of how this came about by reading the threads linked in the article (and all the commentary that follows). I think this is something many on this forum are thinking about, so maybe it might help.
Also- let me know what you guys think about this project. I've signed up. I think it's fairly safe, since there's no obligation on either party, but we are seriously looking at spending a good hunk of change on a boat, and this one seems to fit most of what we'd like in a cruising design.
2003 Hunter 260 "Any damn fool can navigate the world sober. It takes a really good sailor to do it drunk." - Sir Francis Chichester while loading his boat with gin. WORK IS OVER-RATED
I wonder if the price of $175K is something that can not be done. At least not without cutting many corners.
The cost of building a boat goes way beyond the cost of the boat it's self. You have to add the cost of insurance, support, warranty repairs, overhead. The list goes on and on. I'd think if it could be done someone would already be doing it.
Nothing so far. I think John's idea is to gauge just how much interest there is in a boat like this, then take it to a builder and then designer and get it done. I would hope the capital would follow, which is what the sign up list is all about. I'm sure people could flake out, which is always a possibility, but that's what investors need to figure out for themselves... Stuff like this is still a lot better than going to Vegas for folks like that!
no one has thought about being able to build and sell an affordable blue water boat up until now? wow what a new Idea. I did notice his Idea of having someone else make there small fortune building this boat by spending someone else's large fortune. he has the answer to building the inexpensive boat. the Idea that all the other builders have never thought of. $175 k is a pipe dream, the parts and materials to build a 40' boat will exceed that number before you even start the build.
I didn't really say it was a new idea. I wouldn't be surprised if the price goes up a bit (even to $250k or $300k), but I think it's possible if you leave off all the unnecessary junk that makes sailboats considerably more expensive as John explains. I think he's suggesting that if there's enough interest (which may appear to be sustainable and create a good business model), it could be done. I hope it has at least some chance of working out... or I could just buy a 20 year old boat, fix it up and go sailing! This would be a bare-bones cruiser- no watermaker, no genset (so no fridge, heat or a/c).
Overbored: I'd like to know wheter you considered John's idea. Where is the flaw in his argument?
In short the argument goes: 1. The Oceanis 45 costs 225k. The Adventure would be smaller(shorter and narrower), so the price should be possible, from the standpoint of material costs. 2: Cheap blue water cruisers have been thought of, of course, but the case against has been that the market is to small for the volumes needed to push the costs(i.e. initial costs like tooling). By scouting out a market first, investors could be convinced. Right?
This idea is quite odd. The boat market and the number of builders (particularly in Europe) is huge and all try to make the boats as inexpensive as they can and they are made for all purposes including offshore sailing.
There is no way to beat in price manufactures that build about 2000 boats a year and sometimes over 500/year of the same model. This scale permits not only huge discounts in the buying of the components and materials as permits the large scale use of robotics.
The idea is as crazy as someone saying that the cars in the market are expensive and that he can make one cheaper by hand.
There are already a boat that fills or can be easily adapted to fill these needs: A plain efficient boat with a huge stability, an offshore strong boat with a very simple and efficient interior. It is the Varianta 44, made by Hanse and cost less than that: 88 000€
You can only command it by internet and the warranty is given by any good shipyard (with Hanse's approval)
IMHO, they are going to need far more than the 200, or even the 500, names to interest an investor. In a global marketplace, that is like getting one person in an office building to say they "might" like something. The the list also needs to be validated. A 15 year old passionate sailor could sign up, without any realistic way to buy.
This reminds me somewhat of the story of the Eclipse Jet. It was presold as an affordable, owner flown, 5 place mini-jet (very light jet as they've become known) that would sell for less than the cost of a twin piston prop plane !! Jets are typically appointed like Bentley's, so this was designed to be appointed more like a Chevy and capture a lower end unserved market.
The company had incredible difficulty producing the aircraft within their estimates and it ultimately went to market at a price roughly 60% above original target. Which, of course, was now more than its comparable piston twin, so they had to change the pitch that got so many interested in the first place. Even if you had a deposit down, you still had to pay the higher price if you wanted one. As a business, having a value proposition that is "lowest cost" is very very dangerous positioning. While the recession played a role, they went bankrupt.
With the number of existing boat builders going out of business these days, I'm surprised anyone would even consider doing something like this. The simplest tooling for a 40 foot boat would be somewhere in the 500,000 to 700,000 range. Shop expenses, tools, personell - figure a minimum of 1.5 mil to get started.