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  #111  
Old 03-12-2012
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Re: How much more blood can they suck?

Well, I stay in touch with my former mates in Deltaville and the poor economy has resulted in more empty slips down there than ever. So this law will be great news for them.

Those that have already paid MD's 5% tax might not choose to leave, since there is PP tax in VA, but some counties have none and some counties keep them really low on boats. However, those buying new and high end used boats may look at saving 3% (VA only taxes boats sales 2%) and equal or possibly less recurring taxes and decide the drive would be worth it.

For me, if this tax passes, I'll definitely move my boat back to VA waters next year. I would need to stay in MD at least one more year to break even on the 3% I paid them vs. PP taxes I would have paid to VA, but this new tax would put me at a permanent disadvantage from a tax perspective. Better to get while the getting is good if this passes.
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  #112  
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Re: How much more blood can they suck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by midlifesailor View Post
Well, I stay in touch with my former mates in Deltaville and the poor economy has resulted in more empty slips down there than ever. So this law will be great news for them.

Those that have already paid MD's 5% tax might not choose to leave, since there is PP tax in VA, but some counties have none and some counties keep them really low on boats. However, those buying new and high end used boats may look at saving 3% (VA only taxes boats sales 2%) and equal or possibly less recurring taxes and decide the drive would be worth it.

For me, if this tax passes, I'll definitely move my boat back to VA waters next year. I would need to stay in MD at least one more year to break even on the 3% I paid them vs. PP taxes I would have paid to VA, but this new tax would put me at a permanent disadvantage from a tax perspective. Better to get while the getting is good if this passes.
Hmm, am I missing something, here?

This proposed bill adds a luxury surcharge on the SALES of boats in excess of a certain amount, correct? How does it impact someone who already owns their boat? No one is talking about some sort of retroactive levy applied to owners of boats assessed above a certain threshold, are they?
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  #113  
Old 03-12-2012
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Re: How much more blood can they suck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Hmm, am I missing something, here?

This proposed bill adds a luxury surcharge on the SALES of boats in excess of a certain amount, correct? How does it impact someone who already owns their boat? No one is talking about some sort of retroactive levy applied to owners of boats assessed above a certain threshold, are they?
Jon,

That's a good question -- one that I sent to BoatUS in response to their mass e-mail to members in MD.

The title of the bill indicates it is a "sales and use" tax; however, after reading the bill it only specifically addresses the sales side of things. I'm a little confused (and concerned that this may be allowing the camel to stick his nose under the tent flap...)
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  #114  
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Re: How much more blood can they suck?

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Originally Posted by NICHOLSON58 View Post

The reason the rest of the world pays so much for gas is that their government taxes the heck out of it. This is to discourage its use. Drive around most of the rest of the world and you will find very few private boats of any size...
Hmmm, ever been to Europe? (grin)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NICHOLSON58 View Post
Do you really think its OK for the Fed to double or tripple the cost of gas. We know the spin off from targeted taxes is reduced consumption of the item. Do you propopse cratering all of the industry that depends on our mobility? I'm sure the government knows better what to do with my money than I
Nope, I'm not suggesting any such thing... I'm very appreciative of the relatively low prices we Americans pay for our petroleum products compared to much of the world, and as someone whose livelihood has always been very much tied to the price of diesel fuel, I'd certainly like to see them stay that way...

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Originally Posted by NICHOLSON58 View Post

Government should not subsidize or penalize any business.
I'm always glad to see a fellow American taxpayer agree with me, that it's about time we stopped subsidizing an entity such as Exxon/Mobil... Hell, I'll even go one step further, and suggest that it's high time they started to pay some US Federal Income Taxes of their own, as well... (grin)

How much do oil companies really pay in taxes? - The Washington Post

You're absolutely right, a National Energy Policy is what we should really be striving for, and both sides of the political aisle have failed miserably on this account for decades...

However, I disagree to some extent on the issue of subsidies... This came up here recently in a discussion of offshore wind farms, for example. A new Energy Paradigm really does represent the Final Frontier for the 21st Century, and America could take a leadership role in the development of alternative technologies, in much the same way we did in space 50+ years ago... But, if we wait for the forces of The Market/Private Enterprise to drive such "exploration", we will have missed the boat, and will ultimately wind up simply buying most of that technology from people like the Chinese...

I'm afraid if we want to compete with a state-run economy on the scale of the Chinese, a certain degree of government subsidization of such technological development by the American private sector is unavoidable...

Last edited by JonEisberg; 03-12-2012 at 10:39 AM.
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  #115  
Old 03-12-2012
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Re: How much more blood can they suck?

I moved to Fort Lauderdale from Annapolis July 2007 after being a resident and homeowner there for fifteen years. The state was in pretty good financial shape at that time. Now look at it. Sure there were external circumstances but there is also a philosophical difference in governing strategies. Now taxes are higher than ever, sales tax has been increased, extraneous fees have been increased and the state is still a financial mess.

The all too typical solution is of course more taxes.

Votes matter so good luck.

As for me I am enjoying no state income tax, no useless county income tax, etc.

Sure some property taxes are higher compared to Annapolis but as your property declines in value, your RE taxes go down. In MD they just raise taxes somewhere else.

FL has a 6% sales tax. Two years ago they decided to cap that at $18,000. That means that a $300K boat buyer pays the same sales tax as a $300M yacht buyer. Naturally there was the predictable class warfare rhetoric but in the end it was decided that keeping those large yachts here was financially preferable to letting them be berthed elsewhere. The yacht industry is a real industry here unlike MD and those yachts make a huge difference to the state and local economy. So far so good and kudos to the
politicians for making it happen.

Annapolis was a great place to live and I enjoy the occasional visit but there are better options, at least for me.
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  #116  
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Re: How much more blood can they suck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Hmm, am I missing something, here?

This proposed bill adds a luxury surcharge on the SALES of boats in excess of a certain amount, correct? How does it impact someone who already owns their boat? No one is talking about some sort of retroactive levy applied to owners of boats assessed above a certain threshold, are they?
Well I'll admit I haven't read the legislation, but that post was based on a previous post that indicated the use part of the tax WAS a recurring tax that you'd be hit with every year.

There was a link in the post to the legislation, but it seems like the post was deleted.
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  #117  
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Re: How much more blood can they suck?

At least here in CA, a Use tax is one that is paid when certain goods are sold. Well, to be precise, when they are bought as the buyer pays. It is confusingly named.
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  #118  
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Re: How much more blood can they suck?

In Wa st, Use tax is paid, same % as sales tax, when I buy something out of state, and bring into Wa st, or a person moves from out of state, into wa st.

Sales tax is charged to the end buyer from the get go inside state lines.

Same thing etc, but the where it is bought etc changes. At one time, we did have a tax that was based on the states feeling a car/boat/truck etc that was yearly licensed/registered, but that law got defeated one year in an initiative.....only as many of the initiative brought to vote by a particular person, to be found unconstitutional per the state constitution. But the legislature passed that part to reduce the yearly license fees anyhow. Hence why even if I like the idea this person has, I never vote yes, as all of his initiatives are usually unconstitutional in someway shape or form.

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  #119  
Old 03-12-2012
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Re: How much more blood can they suck?

New and used boats over $35,000, on top of the 5% sales tax.
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  #120  
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Re: How much more blood can they suck?

After reading the actual proposed legislation I agree that this would apply at the time of sale and to boats being moved into MD waters. The post I responded to previously indicated this tax would be assessed annually like a PP tax. I assume the poster realized the error and deleted the post.

Anyway as it is, If this had been the law 2 years ago, I would never have moved my boat into MD waters. If I never moved my boat into MD waters, I never would have spent my slip fees/boat repairs/boat fuel/auto fuel/grocery/booze/WM/hardware store/dining out/etc/etc dollars in MD.

With this new tax in play, I don't think I'd be only one to decide against moving my boat into MD, and many may decide to buy in MD, but register and keep the boat in VA paying 2% to VA and county PP taxes instead of 5% plus the luxury tax to MD. The tax revenue on all the things I've spent money on MD won't accrure from these folks and there well could be a net loss in revenue. By way of example, the break even for me would be 4+ years of VA PP tax to equal the 3% I paid to MD. This new tax means a MD resident could save that 3% plus the luxury tax, by keeping their boat in VA waters and it would take 5-6 years or even more of PP tax to equal what you'd have paid to MD up front.

Politicians seem incapable of grasping that if you squeeze balloon in one place changes will happen some other place.
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