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post #21 of 59 Old 03-14-2012
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Re: Center Cockpit Versus Aft Cockpit

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The Centre Cockpit Hallberg-Rassy's are to me some of the most beautiful yachts sailing the oceans. If like some of the more racing orientated members above, you prefer yachts that look like spaceships with sails then maybe they are not to your taste .
*grin* I certainly like the HRs. I came to sailing through racing and wanted a boat the could move in any air. HR builds boats that do that.

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post #22 of 59 Old 03-14-2012
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Re: Center Cockpit Versus Aft Cockpit

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...
Is the boat ugly???
Please. Compared to the 'squat' look of a 35ft modern high volume aft cockpit production boat? I think you are in dangerous territory calling anyone's boat ugly.
......
Sorry about that, I have changed that word on the previous post. Ugly was really not appropriated.

Certainly I find some modern cruisers "fat". I do not want to use that word also, let's stay for massive? In Portuguese I would say "volumoso" but I cannot find the right world in English.

Bottom line, small sailboats with a high free-board will generally do not look as good as boats with a smaller freeboard and considering similar hulls, a CC will always have a lot more freeboard than an AC option.

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post #23 of 59 Old 03-14-2012
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Re: Center Cockpit Versus Aft Cockpit

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Originally Posted by SVAuspicious View Post
*grin* I certainly like the HRs. I came to sailing through racing and wanted a boat the could move in any air. HR builds boats that do that.
Halber-Rassy and Najad after many years building CC boats on all boats bigger than 35ft are now starting to produce AC boats, like the new HR 412 or the Najad 355 and 440 AC.

That is true that HR is making better sailing boats, boats that can sail better with light wind, specially on their AC series (372 and 412) but to say that a HR can move in any air is quite an exageration

If you say that for instance regarding to HR, what would you say regarding a First, a Salona or any good and fast performance cruiser?

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post #24 of 59 Old 03-14-2012 Thread Starter
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Re: Center Cockpit Versus Aft Cockpit

Those Najads and HRs are sweet boats, but definitely out of my my budget.

I think i would be open to an AC or CC, as long as i could have a sleeping arrangement that didn't feel like i was in a cocoon.

thanks again for all this great info.

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post #25 of 59 Old 03-14-2012
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Re: Center Cockpit Versus Aft Cockpit

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Sorry about that, I have changed that word on the previous post. Ugly was really not appropriated.

Certainly I find some modern cruisers "fat". I do not want to use that word also, let's stay for massive? In Portuguese I would say "volumoso" but I cannot find the right world in English.

Bottom line, small sailboats with a high free-board will generally do not look as good as boats with a smaller freeboard and considering similar hulls, a CC will always have a lot more freeboard than an AC option.

Regards

Paulo
"Voluminous" works too, Paulo!

as to the bolded bits above... to the first I agree, but esp in the case of the HRs referred to above, surely the hulls are identical and freeboard the same? Overall height will differ of course because the house is taller....

Ron

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post #26 of 59 Old 03-14-2012
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Re: Center Cockpit Versus Aft Cockpit

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Halber-Rassy (sic) and Najad after many years building CC boats on all boats bigger than 35ft are now starting to produce AC boats, like the new HR 412 or the Najad 355 and 440 AC.
Yes - I know that the decision at HR was to provide an upward path from the smaller boats for owners that wanted to stay in aft cockpit designs. I don't know of my own knowledge what Najad design thinking is but I suspect it is similar.

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That is true that HR is making better sailing boats, boats that can sail better with light wind, specially on their AC series (372 and 412) but to say that a HR can move in any air is quite an exageration
I don't agree. The big improvement in speed at HR came with the transition from Enderlein designs to Frers designs.

I'm a delivery skipper. I sail a lot of boats. HRs tend to be heavy (my 40' is about 22k#) but I can keep boat speed about half of true wind speed down to 2kts of breeze. A Beneteau First is surely as good or better although not a lot. I haven't sailed a Salona. The Frers HRs are as fast or faster in light air than most production boats. That's my experience.

Of course a lot depends on the sails and the weather you're sailing in. Offshore I'm always happy on my boat and we pretty much sail no matter how light the air gets, and the boat will soldier on when the going gets tough. I haven't been out in anything over F9 though.

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post #27 of 59 Old 03-14-2012
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Re: Center Cockpit Versus Aft Cockpit

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Originally Posted by Faster View Post
"Voluminous" works too, Paulo!

as to the bolded bits above... to the first I agree, but esp in the case of the HRs referred to above, surely the hulls are identical and freeboard the same? Overall height will differ of course because the house is taller....
Yes you are right the freeboard is the same. It seems that today I am just not good with words. I mean the lateral surface of the boat, the one that gives windage that is the freeboard more the cabin height. That one is bigger on a CC boat regarding a AC boat. Look at the two lateral profiles of the Najad:



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post #28 of 59 Old 03-14-2012
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Re: Center Cockpit Versus Aft Cockpit

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Originally Posted by SVAuspicious View Post
..

I'm a delivery skipper. I sail a lot of boats. HRs tend to be heavy (my 40' is about 22k#) but I can keep boat speed about half of true wind speed down to 2kts of breeze. A Beneteau First is surely as good or better although not a lot. I haven't sailed a Salona. The Frers HRs are as fast or faster in light air than most production boats. That's my experience. ...
Just talking about very light winds: You have said " could move in any air". I agree that the new HR are a lot faster than the old ones but regarding light wind the difference is that while a HR (or that type of boat) makes half the wind speed in light wind, a modern performance boat makes almost, and in some cases better, than wind speed (upwind) an that is an huge difference. I know, I have been trying that kind of boats on the last years to select one.

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post #29 of 59 Old 03-14-2012
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Re: Center Cockpit Versus Aft Cockpit

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The other trade off is between entertaining space ...

Since most of our activity is horizontal in the stateroom, with plenty in a corner to stand and dress, we opt for more elbow room with guests.
...

It's 5 o'clock somewhere:


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post #30 of 59 Old 03-14-2012
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Re: Center Cockpit Versus Aft Cockpit

I'm constantly surprised by how well our Malo keeps moving in very light air. While not suggesting she'd keep up with the Salonas of this world she still slips along quite nicely. The newer Malos/HRs/Najads etc, would I'm sure be even better.

Ours, being the 'classic' version has the extended aft deck that makes for relaxing out of the cockpit, fishing, bbqing and the like. Nice compromise though I still think the advantages of a swim platform and/or open stern cockpit cannot be over stated.

As per previous post in another thread, if we were to change boats one of the HR CCs would be definitely be on the list either 43 or 48. Not at all sure though that I want or need such a big boat, 42 is for me a lot of boat but yes, I wouldn't mind that island aft berth.

However you look at it though, an aft cockpit is almost/always more handsome than centre. Check out Bob Perry's Norseman 447. One of the best looking CCs, certainly of its time but the AC is still the serious looker.

Andrew B

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