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  #31  
Old 03-14-2012
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Re: Center Cockpit Versus Aft Cockpit

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
I'm constantly surprised by how well our Malo keeps moving in very light air. While not suggesting she'd keep up with the Salonas of this world she still slips along quite nicely. The newer Malos/HRs/Najads etc, would I'm sure be even better.

...
The main difference is with very weak wind, like 2 to 4K, mostly thermic wind. With this wind your boat will be dead on the water while a performance cruiser if sailed upwind will make wind, going a bit faster than the wind.

Also with 8/10k, performance cruisers will be near their hull speed upwind while you will be going well, but not near hull speed. For that you will need 12 or 13K.

With more wind (+ 10) the differences are smaller, except when it blows at more than 15K and you are going downwind, than the differences starts to be big again.

But you are right, modern boats, even boats like the HR and Malo are much faster than older boats....but so are performance boats, compared with older performance boats

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 03-14-2012 at 04:13 PM.
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  #32  
Old 03-14-2012
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In addition to our ty37 we also have a H45CC; The Hunter is a easy boat to sail singlehanded, the space below is nice, the windage is minor and docking could be a task when doing it alone but, this also depends on conditions.

Having said all that, I still prefer my tayana, but the wife prefers the comfort of the Hunter
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  #33  
Old 03-14-2012
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Re: Center Cockpit Versus Aft Cockpit

Have a Beneteau 36CC and love it ... A couple of things that are great ... the galley on it is huge and bigger than I've ever seen on a comparable aft cabin. It is long with much counter space as it is a passageway to the aft cabin... so counter space to the left and right as you go aft... in my case, probably nine feet on each side.

Aft cabin has lots head room.

Outside lazerette space is typically more limited than I've seen on aft-cockpits of comparable size. Also, I do find that it is much tougher to dock singlehandedly than an aft cockpit boat is. You just cant' get around the fact that you are much further from the dock (no matter what you do) than you would be on an aft cockpit.

But, I love my CC and would look for another if I ever get one-footitis (or two-, three- or more-footitis)
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  #34  
Old 03-15-2012
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Re: Center Cockpit Versus Aft Cockpit

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Originally Posted by tdw View Post
However you look at it though, an aft cockpit is almost/always more handsome than centre. Check out Bob Perry's Norseman 447. One of the best looking CCs, certainly of its time but the AC is still the serious looker.
I find Centre Cockcpit's polarize me. They either seem completely ugly, or in the case of the like of HR's as I said above I think they are some of the more beautiful boats out there. Look at some large Centre Cockpit Swans and tell me thats not one heck of a boat.

In terms of 'beauty', it's kind of ummm like debating blonde vs brunette isn't it? At the end of the day there are hotties amongst them all.
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  #35  
Old 03-15-2012
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Re: Center Cockpit Versus Aft Cockpit

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Just talking about very light winds: You have said " could move in any air". I agree that the new HR are a lot faster than the old ones but regarding light wind the difference is that while a HR (or that type of boat) makes half the wind speed in light wind, a modern performance boat makes almost, and in some cases better, than wind speed (upwind) an that is an huge difference. I know, I have been trying that kind of boats on the last years to select one.
No argument. Half wind speed is good for a cruising boat. Not so much for a racing boat. In the cruising category there is a big difference between boats like Tayanas and Passports and the newer Scandanavian boats.

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The main difference is with very weak wind, like 2 to 4K, mostly thermic wind. With this wind your boat will be dead on the water while a performance cruiser if sailed upwind will make wind, going a bit faster than the wind.
Nope. I can keep the boat moving in 2 kts. We're not dead in the water. Come sail with me in a Chesapeake summer any time you like.

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Also with 8/10k, performance cruisers will be near their hull speed upwind while you will be going well, but not near hull speed. For that you will need 12 or 13K.
Obviously dependent on point of sail and the seas but a performance boat will generally do better. Interestingly, some of the mid-weight boats move faster offshore in a sea in medium air.
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Last edited by Faster; 03-15-2012 at 11:08 AM. Reason: fixed quote
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  #36  
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Re: Center Cockpit Versus Aft Cockpit

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Originally Posted by SVAuspicious View Post
...

Obviously dependent on point of sail and the seas but a performance boat will generally do better.
If a performance cruiser can not do a lot better than a medium weight cruising boat with 8K wind, than it is not a performance cruiser

Regards

Paulo
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Re: Center Cockpit Versus Aft Cockpit

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Originally Posted by tdw View Post
However you look at it though, an aft cockpit is almost/always more handsome than centre. Check out Bob Perry's Norseman 447. One of the best looking CCs, certainly of its time but the AC is still the serious looker.
That boat has always been one of my favourite Perry designs too.. Interestingly way back we ran into a boat in Victoria that 'seemed' to be a N447 but it wasn't quite right... got looking at it and it was clearly a metal boat with a hint of a chine. Turns out BP reworked the plans and this fellow had built himself an aluminum version. He did a fabulous job and it looked just as good!
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Re: Center Cockpit Versus Aft Cockpit

It's been touched on here but deserves emphasis I think. CC boats excel in the area of interior comfort, space, privacy etc. The liveaboard qualities. They frequently have exceptional engine rooms as well.

Where they come up short is stowage. I have never seen a CC boat that had anything close to adequate stowage, let alone a GOOD amount of it. Take a look at the CC boats on YW and take note of the number of substantial deck boxes on them.

Every CC boat I have known was optimized for maximum living space at the cost of significant sailing practicalities - where does the bagged spinnaker go? Spare or small jib? Where do you stow spare sheets & docklines? shore power cords? Paddles for the dinghy? Crab trap? Etc. etc.

To me, that is the single biggest factor that has to be taken into account when deciding if one is suitable for your intended use.
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Re: Center Cockpit Versus Aft Cockpit

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
Check out Bob Perry's Norseman 447. One of the best looking CCs, certainly of its time but the AC is still the serious looker.
+ 1 or 3 on that - one of his very best IMO. The pickleforks were one of the best bits of deck detail ever.

To my eye, the best looking CC boats ever, were the old Hylas 47 and 49. I can't imagine them looking better with aft cockpits.
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Re: Center Cockpit Versus Aft Cockpit

Remember the Irwins; give me a 34-37 ft center cockpit aft cabin ketch! Now you're talkin'!
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