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  #31  
Old 03-28-2012
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Re: What is your opinion of Bavaria's?

Don't intend to single out Bavaria here, but it bugs the hell out of me when a builder can't seem to be bothered to get even the simplest details right...

Here is the deck attachment point on a split backstay of one of the smaller Bavarias shown at Annapolis this year... Forget about the possibility it might be just a tad on the "light" side for a boat of that size. All it would have taken, is just a bit of thought to get that stupid U-bolt properly aligned to the load it would see... Really makes you wonder about their engineering of stuff like keels, rudders, and whatnot...



Again, this sort of stuff is so distressingly commonplace on today's mass produced boats, it's a bit unfair to single out Bavaria, I've seen exactly the same thing on other Brands, as well...

As always, it all depends on your intended use of the boat... They're obviously a lot of boat/volume for the money, probably a great value for coastal/weekend/vacation sailing...

But for heading off for Bermuda, particularly aboard one that might be well towards the end of its useful Shelf Life? Well, perhaps not so much...

Last edited by JonEisberg; 03-28-2012 at 10:59 PM.
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  #32  
Old 03-28-2012
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Re: What is your opinion of Bavaria's?

John,

Not sure if that pics issue would or would not be an issue.

A what I would call a bigger issue, was on a Catalina 34 down the dock from me. Deck mounted traveler, with built in fiberglass risers from the factory, a deck orginize to a clutch where the halyard had to go around touching/dragging etc on the fiberglass riser, causing the raising of that halyard to probably have twice the force one needed to normally raise a sail. There was no way one could raise said sail with any amount of hand doing, a winch was always needed! Then to make things worst, the winch was so far outward, you could not turn the winch 360* with out hitting the dodger!

I can fix the above pic problem easy enough. the line going thru a part of the boat.......a little harder!

Marty
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  #33  
Old 03-29-2012
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Re: What is your opinion of Bavaria's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
[/COLOR]

Paulo,

This should be something to the effect "i seems no North americans will accept that a modern day European built boat can sail the oceans" or some such thing, be it a bavaria, Jeanneau, Beneteau, Finngulf, swan, oyster........need I add more names to the list?!?!?!

marty
I did not want to go that far, but if you say so....

Regards

Paulo
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  #34  
Old 03-29-2012
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Re: What is your opinion of Bavaria's?

I was on a coupe of Bavaria's at the Vancouver Boat show and in the 32-38 foot range I really liked the looks and use of space. They seem to have good equipment but do some things I consider dangerous. The CNG or propane stove for example has the gas shut off right above the stove in a cabinet. They would also have a gas header inside the boat rather than in a drained locker.
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Old 03-29-2012
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Re: What is your opinion of Bavaria's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
....
As always, it all depends on your intended use of the boat... They're obviously a lot of boat/volume for the money, probably a great value for coastal/weekend/vacation sailing...

But for heading off for Bermuda, particularly aboard one that might be well towards the end of its useful Shelf Life? Well, perhaps not so much...
Off course there are better built and more resistant boats but these guys:






Perithia

Ship

Picked up a 2002 Bavaria 44 and circumnavigated and not any circumnavigation but one by the Northwest passage. You would say a 10 years boat is not an old boat, but this is a 10 year's old charter boat (Greece) a boat that had ended its useful life as a Charter boat and with the kind of abuse charter boats sustain I would say that each year of a charter boat will count as three in what regards the use of an average well maintained private boat.

The boat is for sale by 129000 euros and they say it is in very good condition

PERITHIA

And I believe that with a check-up it will be ready for another circumnavigation. I say this because I know a guy that has done two circumnavigations on the same Bavaria 36.

I guess that a boat that has made a circumnavigation (or two) will be able to head for Bermuda. I know it is ruff, but you have just to take it with care and to know what you are doing. Probably the boat can handle more than what you are able to or at least more than what 99.5% of the sailors can handle.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 03-29-2012 at 12:05 PM.
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  #36  
Old 03-29-2012
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Re: What is your opinion of Bavaria's?

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Originally Posted by manhattan08 View Post
What is your opinion of Bavaria's?
The new Bavaria 40 is very nice, especially when compared to Jeanneau 409. The dealer offer me a discount of 20K and one year free marina fee.

I haven't pulled the trigger becasue I thought i would be retiring. Now I am into a new business expansion, and just found out a month ago the daughter will be going Med School in Aug. There goes to my another $300K, although she said that she doesn't want me to pay. I can't see how I will let her do this with so much debt I will work for another 5 years. The good news is I love what I do.

Anyway, the 40 is nice, comfortable cockpit and not too big to be dangerous. I love their new gallery along on the port side where most other sailboat have their settee. Because of this, there are plenty of counter top space and handrail. You can still cook easily under sail. There are plenty of space so that you don't need to stand in front the stove.

For the two cabin version, you have a built-in "garage" with lot of room and huge bath room and shower area. You can sit down and brace yourself during rough sea. No more plastic shower curtain just a few inches away and keep stick to your skin when sailing the OLD boat.

Another viable alternative is Dufour 40E. I sailed her last years and without trying, we passed every sailboats (10) in the bay. She is fast. Her bath and shower is separated. Great for wet locker. Behind the shower room is the garage.

There are lot of nice boats to buy.
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  #37  
Old 03-29-2012
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Re: What is your opinion of Bavaria's?

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I would say that each year of a charter boat will count as three in what regards the use of an average well maintained private boat.
I'd say that is being very generous - I'd put it at closer to 5 or 6 years. The 3 year old Harmony we chartered in the BVI looked like a 15 year old private boat in terms of wear on the hard parts.
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  #38  
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Re: What is your opinion of Bavaria's?

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post

I guess that a boat that has made a circumnavigation (or two) will be able to head for Bermuda. I know it is ruff, but you have just to take it with care and to know what you are doing. Probably the boat can handle more than what you are able to or at least more than what 99.5% of the sailors can handle.

Regards

Paulo
You're right, of course, it's long ago been "proven" that just about any voyage can be undertaken and completed on just about anything that floats... Young Matt Rutherford, for example, is very close to proving that an Albin 27 is capable of a non-stop circumnavigation of the Americas... My only point is, such a boat would not be MY first choice for such a voyage...

The increasing use of U-bolts instead of proper chainplates on today's production boats is simply one of my pet peeves... I don't believe it's a proper setup, and it seems such a blatant example of a builder "cheaping out", and going with something easier, and will likely be "good enough"... And, it quite possibly will be, for 99% of the sailors of such boats... I could be wrong about that, of course... (grin)

Still, I don't like heading for a place like Bermuda aboard a boat I have doubts about... Why should I assume the assembly line worker who installs the seacocks on today's Bavarias has more of a clue as to what he's doing than the guy who installs the deck hardware? What evidence do I have that the boys at the Bavaria factory know that, while a backstay tang may not be all THAT critical an installation, one can rest assure that they fully understand the importance of getting the installation of something below the waterline correctly, and the fitting of something like a seacock has been done to absolute perfection?

I'm sure my attitude sounds somewhat obsessive or even anal to many, but my experience has taught me one Dirty Little Secret about how 99.9% of boats "outlast" their crews when the going gets tough... It's due to the fact that they've already worn down their crews with all the "little things" that go wrong... Fully-crewed boats are better prepared to deal with such cascading failures, but as one who does a considerable amount of single/shorthanded sailing, I'd rather take my chances aboard boats where things have been properly done by the builder from the get-go...
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  #39  
Old 03-30-2012
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Re: What is your opinion of Bavaria's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
...

The increasing use of U-bolts instead of proper chainplates on today's production boats is simply one of my pet peeves... I don't believe it's a proper setup, and it seems such a blatant example of a builder "cheaping out", and going with something easier, and will likely be "good enough"... And, it quite possibly will be, for 99% of the sailors of such boats... I could be wrong about that, of course... (grin)

...
Yes I understand what you mean but you should not forget that the backstays on modern boats only are subjected at a fraction of a force that are the backstays on older boats. Some modern boats like the Hunter or the Pogo 12.50 just don't use them. That has to do with the rigging of the mast and with the spreaders.

Another thing is the lateral chainplates and this ones are massif and very strong on the Bavarias and connected to a main bulkhead, I mean they normally finish in two strong steel plates, one on each side of the bullkhead , embracing it, and both sides united by steel bolts that go trough the bulkhead. Some others use them linked to the main boat structure.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 03-30-2012 at 04:38 PM.
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  #40  
Old 04-01-2012
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Re: What is your opinion of Bavaria's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg
...

The increasing use of U-bolts instead of proper chainplates on today's production boats is simply one of my pet peeves... I don't believe it's a proper setup, and it seems such a blatant example of a builder "cheaping out", and going with something easier, and will likely be "good enough"... And, it quite possibly will be, for 99% of the sailors of such boats... I could be wrong about that, of course... (grin)

Yes I understand what you mean but you should not forget that the backstays on modern boats only are subjected at a fraction of a force that are the backstays on older boats. Some modern boats like the Hunter or the Pogo 12.50 just don't use them. That has to do with the rigging of the mast and with the spreaders.
Again, you're right about that, but I still don't like the practice, and I've seen it elsewhere, in some very surprising applications...

For example, you'll rarely find a boat built to a much higher standard than Cherubini does... Yet, I was stunned to see U-bolts instead of chainplates for the main and mizzen shrouds on the 44 shown at Annapolis a few years ago... And, yes, the lowers were, too, ever so slightly misaligned... (grin)



Chainplates can be a tricky thing to get right on any rig other than one with inline shrouds... On boats with fore and aft lowers, there is almost always some degree of misalignment to the load, for to get it just so usually requires the chainplate bulkhead to be slightly angled, or the chainplate itself either bent, or twisted... Few builders bother to go to such lengths, even the Valiant 42 I took south last fall, the chainplates for the lowers were absolutely vertical and ran athwhartships, and relied on the insertion of a toggle to improve the modest degree of misalignment...

"Good enough" perhaps, but still, not "Done Right"... (grin)
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