What is your opinion of Bavaria's?

[PCP]

Originally Posted by JonEisberg

...
"Good enough" perhaps, but still, not "Done Right"... (grin)

Yes, I agree with you and would like to give an advice to all that buy new mass production boats, Bavarias or any other brand.

As Jon said the rig tunning is very important. I would say that modern boats rigs are well designed to the loads of the rig but everything is mounted by the dealer...and that can be a very dangerous thing. I have heard some astonishing stories about the way some rigs are mounted and tuned by dealers.

So a word of advise: Chose a big dealer that have a lot of experience with the boat. Try to be there when they mount the rig and talk with the rigger to see if he does not put some boy doing the work and check properly the work done.

If not, before doing some serious sailing with the boat go to a "official" rigger from the brand of your mast (warranty issues) and ask him to tun the rig. You are going to be surprised with the quantity of work needed and with what he is going to say about the ones that had rigged the mast...at least that was what happened to me.

Regards

Paulo

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by pcp

i guess that a boat that has made a circumnavigation (or two) will be able to head for bermuda. I know it is ruff, but you have just to take it with care and to know what you are doing. Probably the boat can handle more than what you are able to or at least more than what 99.5% of the sailors can handle.

+1.

[mortyd]

if you're in the market for a boat, ask catalna owners for reasons not to buy a catalina. you'll start looking at catalinas all over again.

[SloopJonB]

Originally Posted by JonEisberg

Again, you're right about that, but I still don't like the practice, and I've seen it elsewhere, in some very surprising applications...

For example, you'll rarely find a boat built to a much higher standard than Cherubini does... Yet, I was stunned to see U-bolts instead of chainplates for the main and mizzen shrouds on the 44 shown at Annapolis a few years ago... And, yes, the lowers were, too, ever so slightly misaligned... (grin)



Chainplates can be a tricky thing to get right on any rig other than one with inline shrouds... On boats with fore and aft lowers, there is almost always some degree of misalignment to the load, for to get it just so usually requires the chainplate bulkhead to be slightly angled, or the chainplate itself either bent, or twisted... Few builders bother to go to such lengths, even the Valiant 42 I took south last fall, the chainplates for the lowers were absolutely vertical and ran athwhartships, and relied on the insertion of a toggle to improve the modest degree of misalignment...

"Good enough" perhaps, but still, not "Done Right"... (grin)

The lower shrouds on my Col. 43 are essentially U-bolts - they are a stub of stainless strap welded to a large stainless plate which acts as a big backing plate - the stub passes through the deck like a conventional chainplate. All the uppers are conventional long straps bolted to bulkheads etc. It has kept a 66' stick standing for 42 years despite years of serious neglect and the boat has sailed from N.Y. to San Francisco so I guess it's adequate.

I've never, to the best of my knowledge, seen a chainplate perfectly aligned with the shroud attached to it - that's the reason for toggles.

[JonEisberg]

Originally Posted by SloopJonB

The lower shrouds on my Col. 43 are essentially U-bolts - they are a stub of stainless strap welded to a large stainless plate which acts as a big backing plate - the stub passes through the deck like a conventional chainplate. All the uppers are conventional long straps bolted to bulkheads etc. It has kept a 66' stick standing for 42 years despite years of serious neglect and the boat has sailed from N.Y. to San Francisco so I guess it's adequate.

I've never, to the best of my knowledge, seen a chainplate perfectly aligned with the shroud attached to it - that's the reason for toggles.

NEVER??? Really? Hmmm, perhaps you need to come back to the East coast, and have a look at some Proper Yachts... (grin)

Toggles are best used for dealing with variable and eccentric fluctuations, such as those due to things like headstay sag, and pumping... They are certainly not intended to correct to sort gross misalignment I was referring to...

Not sure I completely understand your description of your U-bolt arrangement, but there's no question a U-bolt can be made strong enough for a particular application...

My problem with U-bolts that I see on today's boats, is that the clevis pin will be subject to point loading, rather than having its load distributed over its full diameter when held captive within a properly sized chainplate hole.

I doubt there are many riggers out there who would consider a u-bolt attachment superior to a proper chainplate, and that's one reason you'll never see u-bolts in lieu of chainplates on boats built by Swan, Perini Navi, Royal Huisman, and the like...

[SloopJonB]

Originally Posted by JonEisberg

Not sure I completely understand your description of your U-bolt arrangement, but there's no question a U-bolt can be made strong enough for a particular application...

Picture the top few inches of a conventional strap chainplate - the part the protrudes through the deck and receives the turnbuckle. Underneath the deck that stub is welded to a large flat S/S plate that is bolted to the underside of the deck.

Not the way I would have designed it but, as I noted, it has worked for 42 years including at least one trip from coast to coast via Panama, so I guess Tripp knew what he was doing.