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  #31  
Old 04-10-2012
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Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...

So, lets think about this a second: The purpose of a drogue is to slow the boat and keep it oriented correctly to the waves? If the JSD is slowing the boat to 2 kt and produces tons (literally) of force on the line, why not make it shorter or smaller such that the boat moves at 4 kt and produces less strain on the line? The wind and waves would also be approaching at less relative velocity from the stern at 4 kt than at 2 kt.
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  #32  
Old 04-10-2012
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Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...

I understand the purpose of the long line is to reduce or eliminate the possibility that you fully pull it out of the face of a wave, like a sea anchor is prone to do.
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  #33  
Old 04-10-2012
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Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
I understand the purpose of the long line is to reduce or eliminate the possibility that you fully pull it out of the face of a wave, like a sea anchor is prone to do.
The other purpose is to allow the drogue to engage gradually over a ride range of speeds, and thus reduce dynamic loading. Most of the time, a large fraction of the cones are not in use, but engage when the boat accelerates down a wave face.
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  #34  
Old 04-10-2012
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Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...

I'm intrigued by the fact that, after watching a video of the successful use of a JSD to slow a boat in foul weather and ease the motion successfully, and after they state the retrieval time was about 20 minutes, and so easy they deployed it again in a few days just to be more comfy, there's so much concern about the effectiveness for the JDS and the difficulty with retrieval.

True, if the storm had been much worse, they may have been in danger of getting pooped, or in need of turning the boat into the wind, but it wasn't. Perhaps it's not ideal for all boats, all crews, or all conditions, but for them in their conditions it seemed to have the desired effect and be easy enough to retrieve. I'm impressed, and thanks for sharing the video!

I may try to contact them and find out more info about the retrieval process they used. I don;t have a JSD yet, but plan to have one some day, for just such situations as this (and likely others )
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Old 04-10-2012
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Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...

I read all the retrieval information available, and everyone pretty much said it was a real PITA that required the strength of a young athlete--not a shot to Hell 71-year-old man. Now, looking at all the videos, diagrams, etc..., my thought process kicked in and said "Why not just attach a line to the tail end of the drogue and use it for retrieval. This would invert the parachutes, thereby decreasing the resistance substantially. The retrieval line could be tied off to a cleat on the stern's corner, which I believe would prevent it from becoming wrapped around the drogue's main line.

So far, at least for me, heaving too and allowing the storm to pass seems like a much better option. There are several instances in Pardy's Storm Tactics Handbook that relate to boats using drogues attached to their stern with a bridle. Some sank, many suffered severe damage. Lynn Pardy aptly describes typical weather patterns and the onset of storm patterns in the book(s), information that I believe it very accurate--at least in my part of the world. Like I said earlier, I'll give it a try this summer and I'm fairly open minded about these things.

Back to the retrieval. I got to thinking about this again last night. When I spent endless hours offshore in a relatively small boat fishing for billfish and tuna there were times when the action of the lures twisted the fishing line horribly. The only way to untwist the line was to remove the lures and all hardware, then just let the line pay out behind the boat while you cruised toward home port. Well, after about 100 yards of line is out, the reel was engaged and the friction of the line, with absolutely nothing attached, at 5 knots, was just about enough to drag the person holding the rod overboard. Now were talking about 50-pound-test, fine-diameter monofilament line--not half-inch drogue line with a couple dozen 5-inch parachutes attached. Think about it!

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  #36  
Old 04-11-2012
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Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...

I don't see how a small, swiveled float on the end of a parachute type drogue would substantially impede the function. It would probably make it much easier to retrieve as with a sea anchor. Pulling in a series drogue, it seems, would be difficult from either end as the cones would still likely exert quite a bit of drag, albeit less than when going in their functional direction.

My first choice is still the para-anchor, mainly because with an older style hull with a keel attached rudder that heaves-to readily but has little control surfing down the face of waves, keeping the pointy end into the sea still seems like the right thing to do. Having waves break over the cockpit is just not my idea of how I want to deal with a large, dangerous, breaking sea...sorry.
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Last edited by smurphny; 04-11-2012 at 07:16 AM.
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  #37  
Old 04-11-2012
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Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...

I am not a big fan of this kind of systems but it seems to me that this one is the best. With this one you can even control your speed, letting go more or less cones.

On those conditions I would not have used it (on my boat), I mean with that sea and wind but I don’t know their boat. It seems to me that it is an old hull with a narrow stern and that kind of boat roll a lot dead downwind.

Anyway it seems to me that if he had taken one of the head sails, changed the course to 135/140 of true wind he would have stabilized the boat would not need to deploy the drogue and would be making good speed. Perhaps he just wanted to make a movie about the drogue.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 04-11-2012 at 11:14 AM.
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  #38  
Old 04-11-2012
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Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...

Warning, noob here.

Do you guys ever use actual parachutes (the nylon kind that fall out of the sky) for this kind of deceleration/stabilization work? If so, what kinds do you use? Has anyone considered a ringslot/ribbon canopy? Instead of the typical type of round parachute you think of, this one is made of concentric bands held together with webbing. It would allow water to escape through the slots between the bands. Cargo ringslot parachutes are extremely strong, nylon canopies. They are towed behind aircraft at 150 knots with no damage. Nt sure how they would fair in salt water, but just a thought.

For reference, the one I'm thinking of is 15' diameter. If that's too small, there's also a 28'.

Last edited by justflie; 04-11-2012 at 08:10 AM. Reason: One more thing.
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Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...

I believe people have used ordinary chutes and they are prone to fail. Purpose built sea anchors have the ability to off load excess force through tear away panels or other openings. Think of it this way.

The weight of a 1 inch column of air that extends from sea level to the top of the atmosphere is approximately 15 lbs.

A 1 inch column of water that weighs 15 lbs is only 33 ft tall.

The drag and pressure differentials are extreme. The chute should probably take that into consideration.
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  #40  
Old 04-11-2012
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Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...

The type of heavy duty military surplus cargo chutes mentioned in Storm Tacticshave not been available as far as I was able to find. They were built with very heavy reinforced polymer. That's why I bought a Para-Anchor which is designed to take the extreme loads, proven and tested. Why screw with something like this? The Para (which I hope to never use) is MUCH heftier than a regular parachute. Moving water can exert unbelievable force.
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