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-   -   Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment... (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/85913-video-jordan-series-drogue-deployment.html)

MedSailor 04-08-2012 12:04 AM

Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...
 
Here is a video of a Jordan Series Drogue deployment on a Brent Swain designed steel boat (yes our Brent Swain;)) off the coast of Chile.


It's pretty interesting to see how the boat goes from starting to surf with the waves, to having the waves pass under the transom. You can really see the aft buoyancy of the boat working to raise the cockpit out of harm's way from the waves.

Note the extra line that is rolling hitched outboard of the bridle legs. That's a retrieval line that he used, apparently to great effect. The couple said they found the motion so comfortable, and the deployment and retrieval so easy that they plan to use the JSD is moderate conditions and not just severe or survival ones.

MedSailor

Rockter 04-08-2012 04:07 AM

Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...
 
It looks a good system. How do you anchor it to the deck though? In a storm, the forces will be terrible and I would worry about the forces on the deck fittings. Perhaps it needs dedicated through-hull anchor points and backing plates?

Minnewaska 04-08-2012 07:40 AM

Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...
 
I want one.

Irunbird 04-08-2012 08:12 AM

Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockter (Post 855705)
It looks a good system. How do you anchor it to the deck though? In a storm, the forces will be terrible and I would worry about the forces on the deck fittings. Perhaps it needs dedicated through-hull anchor points and backing plates?

From Jordanseriesdrogue.com -

Attachments on the Hull
The hull attachments for the drogue should be as far outboard and as far aft as possible. I have no information on the ultimate strength of a typical sheet winch installation, and it would be difficult to evaluate each structure. Unfortunately, a winch is not an ideal structure, since the load is applied above the deck line and tends to overturn the winch and pull it out. The optimum attachment for the drogue is clearly a strap similar to a chainplate, bolted to the hull at the corners of the transom and extending aft with a shackle.

For a load of 14,000 lbs, a strap x 2.25 x 18 inches attached with six 3/8 bolts would provide a conservative design.

A large steel cleat would be acceptable if the deck is thick solid fiberglass and a steel plate is provided underneath.

travlineasy 04-08-2012 12:29 PM

Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...
 
There are a couple things I looked at with some concern. First and foremost, the winds, while they were moderately high, they did not seem to produce wave heights that would have been threatening for a boat of that size. Therefore, the waves passed harmlessly beneath the stern without coming over the stern and entering the cockpit. Had the winds been, say, 45 to 50 knots, I suspect deploying the drogue could have caused sufficient slowing of the boat to send waves into the cockpit.

Additionally, they seemed to be sailing in the same direction as the storm front, and it appeared as if they were making a fair amount of speed with just a storm jib. While I have, admittedly, absolutely NO bluewater sailing experience, I have researched the subject extensively over the past three years. From nearly everything I've read it is foolish to run with a storm, or to attempt to outrun a storm. If you're running with the storm you are essentially extending the time you will be exposed to those conditions by a significant margin. Trying to outrun the storm is nearly impossible, and pretty much accomplishes the same as running with the storm--you'll just get the hell beat out of you and your crew.

Now, I wonder how that same boat would fare if the drogue were deployed from the bow with a harness while hove to? From what I've read I would tend to believe that this would be a far safer option in storm conditions. Under those circumstances you could spend the night comfortably, but very slowly drifting, thereby allowing the storm to pass over you and when conditions improve, sail on to your destination.

Just a though,

Gary :cool:

MedSailor 04-08-2012 06:31 PM

Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by travlineasy (Post 855811)
There are a couple things I looked at with some concern. First and foremost, the winds, while they were moderately high, they did not seem to produce wave heights that would have been threatening for a boat of that size. Therefore, the waves passed harmlessly beneath the stern without coming over the stern and entering the cockpit. Had the winds been, say, 45 to 50 knots, I suspect deploying the drogue could have caused sufficient slowing of the boat to send waves into the cockpit.

Additionally, they seemed to be sailing in the same direction as the storm front, and it appeared as if they were making a fair amount of speed with just a storm jib. While I have, admittedly, absolutely NO bluewater sailing experience, I have researched the subject extensively over the past three years. From nearly everything I've read it is foolish to run with a storm, or to attempt to outrun a storm. If you're running with the storm you are essentially extending the time you will be exposed to those conditions by a significant margin. Trying to outrun the storm is nearly impossible, and pretty much accomplishes the same as running with the storm--you'll just get the hell beat out of you and your crew.

Now, I wonder how that same boat would fare if the drogue were deployed from the bow with a harness while hove to? From what I've read I would tend to believe that this would be a far safer option in storm conditions. Under those circumstances you could spend the night comfortably, but very slowly drifting, thereby allowing the storm to pass over you and when conditions improve, sail on to your destination.

Just a though,

Gary :cool:


I used to think exactly the same thing, and I still believe that running before a storm Motessier style, or towing traditional drogues, is a tactic to be used by IOR boats with big race crews that don't have any other option.

The JSD is actually a completely different storm tactic than the usual running before a storm with a drogue. It is more of a hybrid of running before and a parachute sea anchor. It is most like a parachute, but instead of STOPPING the boat, the boat's speed is slowed to about 2.5knots through the water and the boat is not shock-loaded nearly as much as the wave passes under the boat. It really is different.

The coast guard tested, and was sold on the concept:
http://www.jordanseriesdrogue.com/pd...uardreport.pdf
Beth and Evans also have great info on their webite.

MedSailor

travlineasy 04-09-2012 10:47 AM

Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...
 
Thanks for the link. I'll download it when I get back from working on my boat today and give it a read tonight.

Gary :cool:

Barquito 04-09-2012 10:50 AM

Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...
 
Quote:

Additionally, they seemed to be sailing in the same direction as the storm front, and it appeared as if they were making a fair amount of speed with just a storm jib. While I have, admittedly, absolutely NO bluewater sailing experience, I have researched the subject extensively over the past three years. From nearly everything I've read it is foolish to run with a storm, or to attempt to outrun a storm. If you're running with the storm you are essentially extending the time you will be exposed to those conditions by a significant margin. Trying to outrun the storm is nearly impossible, and pretty much accomplishes the same as running with the storm--you'll just get the hell beat out of you and your crew.
Presumably, there is an advantage here with the JSD, in that, it can be launched and recovered easly enough to deploy to eat lunch (lunch launch). Maybe this would also would be more of a problem in 50kt winds.

Also, if the winds are going in the direction they want to go, it is nice to keep going that direction. The storm will pass a little faster with the JSD that if they were going hull speed down wind. No idea what the weather was like out there, but, they might have expected one storm after another, so, it wouldn't really help to stop to let it pass.

Let's see if we can get someone from Practical Sailor to go out in the next tropical storm with a few drag devices.:D

AdamLein 04-09-2012 01:00 PM

Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...
 
Still seems like a pain in the butt compared to heaving-to.

Minnewaska 04-09-2012 01:22 PM

Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...
 
It's my understanding that the major downside for the JSD is retrieval. I watched the vid a couple of days ago. I don't recall them actually showing the retrieval in real time. I have heard it can take hours.


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