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  #11  
Old 03-29-2013
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Re: shoal draft keel vs regular keel

My 3 foot board up modified full keel-8 foot board down, heavy frikin swing keel Soverel 28 is the best of both worlds. I point high and run like sled in a big folloiwng sea, instead of fighting to turn into each following swell like the fin keels I deliver. I'm up in creeks, close to the beach, inside shallow protected bay's, and 800 miles off shore with a deep draft, beam reach'n with a 6 foot draft, what ever I chose. Love'n it!
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Old 03-29-2013
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Re: shoal draft keel vs regular keel

To have a good idea of the importance of draft go to a PHRF list and see what is the difference in rating between the same boat with a deep draft keel and a shallow draft keel. It is quite big.
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Re: shoal draft keel vs regular keel

I used to think Draft Draft Draft, but now after some experience in big seas with different designs, I think Design Design Design. Deep draft fin-torpedo keels give a false sense of security. Those things break like twigs. I've spoken before about a delivery I did on 27 Benny first with the 3 foot wing thing on it. It made a believer out of me in what I call the "Blue Circle" which is that ever present area of disturbance that sit's north of Columbia. It's almost always blow'n 25 and seas are stacked high with a swell on a swell with a chop on top of that. That little boat was right at home in those conditions. Of course Multi's are an example of design over draft as well. Am I at home in a full keeled 12 foot draft'n 50 footer? Absoulutely, but only till I get to where I'm going, then My a$$ is tighter than snare drum when I'm entering port ( if i can enter). Again, the versatility of my Soverel is a great thing. 8 foot draft on a 28 footer. And my center board is a Big heavy S.O.B. 2" thick epoxy and glass laid up full of lead buck shot through out. dropping out of a 3 foot full keel and weighing in at about 300 pounds, and about 500 pounds of lead pigs in the bildge above that. Design, verastility, performance, options. Just my penny and 1/2's worth.
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Re: shoal draft keel vs regular keel

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Originally Posted by Capt.aaron View Post
... Deep draft fin-torpedo keels give a false sense of security. Those things break like twigs. ....
??????? How many do you know that have broken in many thousands of cruising boats?

Regards

Paulo
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Re: shoal draft keel vs regular keel

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
??????? How many do you know that have broken in many thousands of cruising boats?

Regards

Paulo
Just off the top of my head, there was one in the Gulf of Mexico a couple of years ago, left one sailor dead, and three ( 2 teenagers) drifting in life jackets for 48 hours. They did an episode on a show called. "I should be Dead" And of course it happens to Off shore Racer cruisers, that famous single handed racing dude a few years ago, maybe 10 years, he was almost to Europe from the states, sailing to the start of a race I think.Time slides by me, and so the deatils. One thing sticks with me though, those stupid peice sh!t keels have put speed above safety, and newbies buy into it, taking the design for granted, and periodically I hear of yet another one snapping off, and people put in peril. I don't have the interest to go research on statistics for you. One does'nt need to be an engineer to just look at the construction and design to see the low heavy torpedo, the thin glass fin attached to the light hull to see how fragile the friken things are. And only ONE has to snap of where it's attached and kill one person for me to deam it unsafe. You can take that 2 cents to bank and invest it. I guaranty ya another one will break soon, and you'll double your money when I give another 2 cents worth.
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Last edited by Capt.aaron; 03-29-2013 at 07:18 PM.
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Re: shoal draft keel vs regular keel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.aaron View Post
Just off the top of my head, there was one in the Gulf of Mexico a couple of years ago, left one sailor dead, and three ( 2 teenagers) drifting in life jackets for 48 hours. They did an episode on a show called. "I should be Dead" And of course it happens to Off shore Racer cruisers, that famous single handed racing dude a few years ago, maybe 10 years, he was almost to Europe from the states, sailing to the start of a race I think.Time slides by me, and so the deatils. One thing sticks with me though, those stupid peice sh!t keels have put speed above safety, and newbies buy into it, taking the design for granted, and periodically I hear of yet another one snapping off, and people put in peril. I don't have the interest to go research on statistics for you. One does'nt need to be an engineer to just look at the construction and design to see the low heavy torpedo, the thin glass fin attached to the light hull to see how fragile the friken things are. And only ONE has to snap of where it's attached and kill one person for me to deam it unsafe. You can take that 2 cents to bank and invest it. I guaranty ya another one will break soon, and you'll double your money when I give another 2 cents worth.
I thought that you have said : Those things break like twigs. ....

There are ten's of thousands of boats like that and you remember two or three???...and some in race boats that can hit objects at over 20k speed?

and : "One does'nt need to be an engineer to just look at the construction and design to see the low heavy torpedo, the thin glass fin attached to the light hull to see how fragile the friken things are."

Well, look at this one on a race boat, probably more fragile than the one on a cruising boat, since the weight is at a minimum: This guy was racing a mini transat, he slept too much and his boat has thrown by the waves onto a Brazilian beach. These boats have a big draft so you can imagine that keel with the boat pushed by the waves...Bong, Bong, Bong till laying down on the sand.

Then the guy asked to a powerful fishing boat to pull him out from the beach and again: Bong, Bong, Bong.

The keel had not any problem and after some minor repair on one of the rudders the guy sailed the boat back to France.



So: "Those things break like twigs. ...."One does'nt need to be an engineer to just look at the construction and design to see the low heavy torpedo, the thin glass fin attached to the light hull to see how fragile the friken things are."

Well, it looked pretty tough to me

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 03-29-2013 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 03-29-2013
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Re: shoal draft keel vs regular keel

I exagerate on the "Twig" analogy, but I don't like 'em. If a keel can potentially break right off the friken boat, IMOP it's a poor design, and since I can think of any at all is a testiment. I've forgotten more things than I know, but I know I've heard of more of them breaking off than what I consider to be acceptable.
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Re: shoal draft keel vs regular keel

PCP,
Thanks for the video. I got to say that thing took a beating. Still not fan though.
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Re: shoal draft keel vs regular keel

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Originally Posted by Capt.aaron View Post
PCP,
Thanks for the video. I got to say that thing took a beating. Still not fan though.
Fair enough

Regards

Paulo
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Re: shoal draft keel vs regular keel

As has been mentioned your sailing area and conditions may dictate what kind of boat you might get. Here in NC on the Pamlico sound we have wind tides instead of Lunar tides. So when the wind blows from the south for several days the water goes north (it is a long sound). The water at our dock dropped 3', from a nominal level of 4 1/2', you do the math. Here is what our boat Heron looked like under those conditions;


She is a swing keel boat, with the keel (and rudder) up she draws 1'10" and down about 6'. The keel is 3,000 lbs of lead and is designed to provide good sailing in all positions. I knew this was the kind of boat I would need here to have many good sailing days under all conditions.
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