Over Powered in 30 knots? - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree5Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 04-24-2012
ASA and PSIA Instructor
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,469
Thanks: 6
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 15
sailingfool will become famous soon enough
Re: Over Powered in 30 knots?

With 30 knots you should be able to sail to windward with just the jib, in fact its pretty much the best means for going upwind in such conditions. Running under power would beat the heck out of you and the boat.

Going to windward with just a jib you will have lee helm. The trick to controlling lee helm is to have enough speed to provide the rudder the power it needs to overcome the lee helm.

So you can't get going starting close to the wind. Reach off on a beam reach and trim the jib so its pulling strongly - you should build plenty of speed. As you do the lee helm will be controllable.

Begin a process of short adjustments to get to closehauled. Head up just a bit and trim the jib accordingly - it is important not to stall or luff the jib, as you will start to lose the speed you have. Repeat this adjustment until you are closehauled..do it right and you'll be sailing closehauled at speed. Don't stall or luff the jib and you can keep the speed all day, and you can tack. When tacking, you need to make a relatively swift turn, and bear off a bit on the next tack until you have your speed back.

If you lose your speed, start the process over.

If you are sailing into waves, try to build a rhythm of heading up the front/bearing off the backs, so the boat comes over the wave without pounding. Pounding will stop the boat.

Sailing upwind in a strong breeze with just a jib works fine, helming demands more care and attention that lighter air.
davidpm likes this.
__________________
Certified...in several regards...

Last edited by sailingfool; 04-24-2012 at 01:31 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 04-24-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Liberty Landing
Posts: 665
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 4
peterchech is on a distinguished road
Re: Over Powered in 30 knots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfool View Post
With 30 knots you should be able to sail to windward with just the jib, in fact its pretty much the best means for going upwind in such conditions. Running under power would beat the heck out of you and the boat.

Going to windward with just a jib you will have lee helm. The trick to controlling lee helm is to have enough speed to provide the rudder the power it needs to overcome the lee helm.

So you can't get going starting close to the wind. Reach off on a beam reach and trim the jib so its pulling strongly - you should build plenty of speed. As you do the lee helm will be controllable.

Begin a process of short adjustments to get to closehauled. Head up just a bit and trim the jib accordingly - it is important not to stall or luff the jib, as you will start to lose the speed you have. Repeat this adjustment until you are closehauled..do it right and you'll be sailing closehauled at speed. Don't stall or luff the jib and you can keep the speed all day, and you can tack. When tacking, you need to make a relatively swift turn, and bear off a bit on the next tack until you have your speed back.

If you lose your speed, start the process over.

If you are sailing into waves, try to build a rhythm of heading up the front/bearing off the backs, so the boat comes over the wave without pounding. Pounding will stop the boat.

Sailing upwind in a strong breeze with just a jib works fine, helming demands more care and attention that lighter air.

Good advice. But if he's pounding into a short chop, the kind we had around here yesterday, there is no way to time it. The boat gets stopped/slowed every 5 seconds or so, no way to maintain speed.

Why is jib only the best way to make progress in heavy winds? I notice alot of sailors do so when the wind picks up but haven't tried it yet myself...
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 04-24-2012
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 14,932
Thanks: 75
Thanked 214 Times in 206 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
Re: Over Powered in 30 knots?

What 26 footer has nearly 7 foot draft?

I'd tend to agree you'd have had better luck with a reefed main, and also you'd have been wiser to head upwind first.. but you already know that.

The option to gybe all the way around was always there for you too. I suspect your boat's just too light to maintain momentum through a tack in waves and wind, probably worsened by trying to do so without adequate boatspeed in the first place. As SF indicated, reaching off to build speed and then quickly turning into and through the tack may have worked.. but then again in certain conditions even that might not do the trick.

Some boats handle fairly well with headsail only.. primarily those masthead rigs with most of the working sail area in the genoa by design. Others not so much.
__________________
Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 04-24-2012
Harborless's Avatar
Blue Horizons
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Jacksonville, Fl
Posts: 1,052
Thanks: 4
Thanked 19 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 4
Harborless is on a distinguished road
Re: Over Powered in 30 knots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleheadMd View Post
The key is balance. It sounds like you were unbalanced. Too much sail forward, and none aft.

I would have flown the smallest jib, and reefed the main to it's smallst dimension. This would place the center of effort where it belongs instead of all the way forward, generating the lee helm.

You mentioned not wanting to dip the rail in the water by raising the main. If you're getting knocked down, you're sheeted in too hard. Either play the mainsheet when the puffs come, or feather up into the wind. Or both.

The boat will remain on it's feet, with the proper amount of weather helm.
It's always choice and mostly preference to sail with the angles of heel I enjoy most. Whenever a gust should come or I simply feel over powered it only takes a split second to snap out the main sheet and bank her into the wind (Unless I was running away of course).
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 04-24-2012
Harborless's Avatar
Blue Horizons
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Jacksonville, Fl
Posts: 1,052
Thanks: 4
Thanked 19 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 4
Harborless is on a distinguished road
Re: Over Powered in 30 knots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by travlineasy View Post
Why didn't you just fire up that iron Jenny and use it in conjunction with the sails? As for the motor's power, yep 8-HP would be fine on a cal day with no tide, but the boat is still underpowered IMO. My old 27 Catalina had a 30-HP Atomic-4 in her and I never had a problem with conditions such as those you described. However, I have a friend who had a Catalina 30-T that had a puny 11-HP diesel. He had to wait for slack tide sometimes in order to get up the channel to the marina, and that was with just a 15-MPH wind and 3-knot tide.

Good luck on your trip back home,

Gary
Because I have an engine problem that allows oil or fuel (haven't diagnosed 100%) to get where it is not supposed to. This means that after a few minutes under load my engine will proceed to "run-away."
This means I have a working engine for docking and short-term interval usage. Yes I understand this is not optimal. However I have already replaced the transmission and shelled out 800$ for governor work that did not fix the problem.. I either sit at the dock and wait for money or I go sailing.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 04-24-2012
ASA and PSIA Instructor
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,469
Thanks: 6
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 15
sailingfool will become famous soon enough
Re: Over Powered in 30 knots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterchech View Post
Good advice. But if he's pounding into a short chop, the kind we had around here yesterday, there is no way to time it. The boat gets stopped/slowed every 5 seconds or so, no way to maintain speed.
Why is jib only the best way to make progress in heavy winds? I notice alot of sailors do so when the wind picks up but haven't tried it yet myself...
A jib and reefed main are ideal until wind force is too great for that combination. As the breeze grows (like 30) the small jib with fully reefed main become too much sail, the next step (the best and somewhat only way) is jib alone, as with most boats a main (reefed or not) does not provide any drive upwind. (If you have a sail plan with a large main, that may not be so true...)
__________________
Certified...in several regards...
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 04-24-2012
Harborless's Avatar
Blue Horizons
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Jacksonville, Fl
Posts: 1,052
Thanks: 4
Thanked 19 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 4
Harborless is on a distinguished road
Re: Over Powered in 30 knots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterchech View Post
Good advice. But if he's pounding into a short chop, the kind we had around here yesterday, there is no way to time it. The boat gets stopped/slowed every 5 seconds or so, no way to maintain speed.

Why is jib only the best way to make progress in heavy winds? I notice alot of sailors do so when the wind picks up but haven't tried it yet myself...
Exactly. Yesterday there was no wave period, lol.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #18  
Old 04-24-2012
casey1999's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: HI
Posts: 2,899
Thanks: 6
Thanked 21 Times in 21 Posts
Rep Power: 5
casey1999 is on a distinguished road
Re: Over Powered in 30 knots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolynShearlock View Post
Ditto on all the above. And note that if you ever are in a situation where you can't tack and there's an obstruction (such as shallow water coming up), you can do a quick jibe all the way around -- instead of tacking through 90 degrees, you jibe through 270 degrees. Hard to make upwind progress as you'll lose a lot, but it can keep you in safe water.
Good advice. A few weeks back I was in a similar situation as yours (did not want to scare the crew or deal with the main sail) so I only used the jib. Winds were gusting up to 30 knts with seas to 5 feet. I could not get the boat to tack no matter what I did, so I did a jibe. I have a reefer furler jib so to lesson the strain on the rig, I rolled the jib in quite a bit and then jibed then rolled it out.

Regards
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #19  
Old 04-24-2012
Harborless's Avatar
Blue Horizons
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Jacksonville, Fl
Posts: 1,052
Thanks: 4
Thanked 19 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 4
Harborless is on a distinguished road
Re: Over Powered in 30 knots?

Lots of great pointers and feedback guys much appreciated. I will thoroughly read up on my lee-helm and see if I can figure alternative ways of beating upwind in short, heavy-chop. I believe like the poster above said it was the short interval rough chop that prevented my building any real speed to tack through to the starboard.
I Will begin next time with a reefed main and decide to swap as necessary. Its easier to raise and lower a jib in heavy wind than a mainsail (imo).
It was a pretty fun day and my sister enjoyed the exciting ride but getting back to where you began is sort of important being a ships captain so I want to continue to learn and get better.
Btw, the boat is a PY26 with swing keel- drops way down.
Also, Forecast for 32210 zipcode for yesterday will give some idea of conditions, though I feel it always seems a little more breezy when your out there.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #20  
Old 04-24-2012
steveg353's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 93
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
steveg353 is on a distinguished road
Re: Over Powered in 30 knots?

In 30kt winds I would have the main up and reefed and the genny rolled up a bit. Going down wind, I will sometimes run under genny only. Going upwind under genny alone in my boat is a practice in futility.

You may want to practice heaving to as I have found that on my boat, I can raise, lower, or set a reef in the main while hove to. It is an great skill to master and each boat does it differently under different conditions so practice is a necessity.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MOB doing 20 knots in 30 knots + recovery AdamLein General Discussion (sailing related) 30 02-11-2012 12:53 AM
wax powered stove lehigh Gear & Maintenance 20 11-17-2011 09:10 PM
Wave Powered !! Freesail99 General Discussion (sailing related) 7 07-14-2008 12:10 AM
Water powered generators rsn48 General Discussion (sailing related) 26 12-18-2007 01:02 PM
gas powered liveaboards... razorseal Living Aboard 11 04-12-2006 02:12 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:09 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.