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  #121  
Old 04-28-2012
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Re: Bryan Chong's first hand recount of the Low Speed Chase tragedy

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowButSteady View Post
MS,

What good will any of that do if you decide to "cut the corner" and get too close to a lee shore? THAT is the decision in question here.

I can see it now:
Crew: MS, you're steering us too close to the rocks! We're inside the break line if a big set comes!!!
MS: Don't worry. I have a turkey baster and a spare prop. We'll be fine.
Agree, it is where you go that matters. When I raced off- road motorcycles in the desert a "course" was set up, with check points to keep the riders "on course". The course was laid out to keep people from riding down abandoned mineshafts, blind washes and so on, a safety factor. Way points in about 80 feet of water would have likely prevented this accident. Waypoints seem very simple, am I missing something?

Chart 18645

Paul T
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  #122  
Old 04-28-2012
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Re: Bryan Chong's first hand recount of the Low Speed Chase tragedy

MS,

What is ridiculous is to expect the CG to just carry on, business as usual, after FIVE PEOPLE DIED. WHAT THE F__K is so important about a few silly boat races that they can't be suspended while this incident and its associated safety issues are sorted out?

If Capt. Stowe wants to make sure none of her people have to unnecessarily risk their lives rescuing racers who can't keep their boats away from hazardous surf (all in the name of "fun", or the pursuit of a shiny pickle dish), HOW THE F__K are you qualified to second-guess that decision? When was the last time YOU dropped from a helicopter and pulled someone out of such a mess, or had the responsibility for sending others into such danger??? Why don't you just go play with your toys, write your little web postings on the best crimping tools, and let the safety professionals do their jobs?
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  #123  
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Re: Bryan Chong's first hand recount of the Low Speed Chase tragedy

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabnis View Post
Agree, it is where you go that matters. When I raced off- road motorcycles in the desert a "course" was set up, with check points to keep the riders "on course". The course was laid out to keep people from riding down abandoned mineshafts, blind washes and so on, a safety factor. Way points in about 80 feet of water would have likely prevented this accident. Waypoints seem very simple, am I missing something?

Chart 18645

Paul T
Waypoints may well be the answer, or at least a major component of such. But, let's give the professionals a little time to sort things out, and make a well considered decision. Let things cool off a little. Let everyone have some input, before a "solution" is enacted.

Making a hurried decision often results in the Law of Unintended Consequences asserting its authority.
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  #124  
Old 04-28-2012
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Re: Bryan Chong's first hand recount of the Low Speed Chase tragedy

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowButSteady View Post

Making a hurried decision often results in the Law of Unintended Consequences asserting its authority.
Couldn't have said it better myself... Capt. Cynthia Stowe's hurried decision comes immediately to mind...

I fully suspect the private sector race organizers WILL set a rounding mark for that course and the safety issues will be addressed.


Now what about all those canoes, kayaks, open motor boats and unsafe cruising sailors, why are we ignoring their safety......

Why can my daughter ride a big yellow death trap with NO SEAT BELTS yet I must be strapped in or face fines. What about the "children"..

There's no need to get all riled up, use masked four letter words or make weak attempts at personal level insults. The four letter words and menial attempts at personal level insults are not going to change my opinion of the situation at hand. I am also certain my approach to the situation will not change your mind but hopefully it does make some think about our approaches to judging others sailing decision making processes..

I am sure you and others feel I carry waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much stuff and it is over kill. Yet I may feel 95% of boaters carry to little to be safe. I am merely trying to promote some critical thinking of how we judge from the sidelines while at the same time perhaps not being 100% safe ourselves. That makes us hypocritical.

Can anyone of use 100% guarantee we will never need rescue from the USCG? Absolutely not. There are far to many scenarios to account for all we can do is do our best. I feel LSC made the best decision they THOUGHT they could make that day and it was still not good enough. Someday perhaps you or I will make a mistake too and everyone will be sitting here stomping the keyboard arguing for more government intervention because of your or my lack of forethought or planning. The difference is I don't believe government intervention will solve anything here and it is simply to appease non-sailors. I still find that offensive and condescending to the sailing community.

If it makes you feel better about yourself then by all means feel free to use the masked four letter words and make attempts to trivialize and demean my contributions to the community.. That becomes a reflection on you, not me....

You don't agree with me, I will never agree with your position on this level of government intervention on sailing because I believe the private sector race organizers and US Sailing will work it out.... We already have the COLREGS in place that are a darn good set of rules for ocean safety.. I was just at a US Sailing seminar two weeks ago and they take this stuff VERY, VERY seriously. I have faith that the race organizers will address this, some don't.

That's the nature of life. Not everyone is of the same belief. However, I think we can continue to discuss it without using masked four letter words or taking it to personal level.....
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 04-28-2012 at 01:52 PM.
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  #125  
Old 04-28-2012
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Re: Bryan Chong's first hand recount of the Low Speed Chase tragedy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
I think everyone should be at least as safe as I am. I am now the new armchair dictator of safety.... This means every last one of you must have at least what I carry, or more, even for just coastal cruising. This is ANY TIME you leave the dock...

Safety:

EPIRB
3 anchors and their rodes (complete, 3 minimum)
Chafe gear for all rodes
Spare nav lights/bulbs
Spare GPS devices = 3
VHF = 3
VHF cable minimum size RG-213
VHF-DSC
AIS
RADAR
Life Sling and multiple throwables
Holstered knife at the helm or on your person
Offshore certified life jackets
Inflatable life jackets with harness and crotch straps
Radar reflectors - two minimum
Storm sails
Personal Locator Beacons
PFD's with personal strobes permanently mounted to PFD's with lithium batts
4 fire extinguishers
Battery fuses on all banks and every branch circuit protected
Life raft for offshore passages.
USCG A1-15 fuel hose
Multiple working bilge pumps plus manual gusher type and hand held pumps
Wood tapered plugs attached to each and every seacock
PROPER FLANGED SEACOCKS
A working and 100% calibrated compass with receipt of date swung and deviation card
Back up depth transducer in place and routed to instrument
100% knowledge of DR skills
Hand held compasses - minimum 4
Working binoculars
Multiple signal devices including mirrors horns and flares. Flares at least double what is required.
Tethers and harnesses
Standing rigging replaced at 10 year intervals (MANDATORY)
Galvanic corrosion surveys biannually
Complete rigging inspections every 4 years
Clean fuel tank
multi-stage filtration
Drogue attachment points and drogue
MOB skills


Boat Essential Tools & Repair Items: (You're just not safe as safe as I am without them)

General Tools:
Wrenches – Assorted and sized for your vessels nuts and bolts
Flare Wrench’s – Very important for any fuel line work
Drills – 1 Corded and 1 Cordless W/inverter to power corded
LED Head lamp & Flashlights multiples, and waterproof
Hole Saw Kit
Screw Drivers – Assorted
Pick Set – Very Handy
Tap/Die Set – Sized accordingly
Heli-Coil repair kit
Hack Saw – With spare blades
Bolt/Wire Cutters – Big enough to cut rigging
Wire Cutters – Big enough to cut battery cable
Blow Torch – Mini butane type and one standard torch head
Socket Set - SAE and Metric
Pipe Wrenches
Pliers - Various sizes
Water Pump Pliers
Needle Nose Vise Grips / hose clamp pliers - For clamping hoses off etc.
Files – Various
Drill Bits – Full Kit
Countersink - At least two sizes
Sandpaper
Dremel
Rigging Knife's
Calipers

Rigging:

Sewing Kit
Monel Seizing Wire
Sail Repair Tape
1” Nylon Webbing
1" Spectra webbing
Sail Slugs – To fit mast track
Sailors Palm, Needles & whipping twine
Clevis Pins – Spares sized for your boat (multiples)
Cotter Pins – Stainless various sizes to fit all pins
Grommets, Snaps & Twist Locks
Rig Tension Gauge
Dodger fittings to effect rail repairs

Engine/Plumbing:

Water pump – Complete spare and rebuild kit
Plumbing Fittings – Assorted to match parts on vessel
Zincs – For heat exchanger
Solenoid – Spare
Fuel Pump -Spare
Fuel Line Hose – Min 6 feet all sizes on vessel
Hose barbs – male/male for splicing hoses of various sizes
Impeller – With spare gaskets.
Oil Filter
Oil – for engine
Air filter
Antifreeze
Fuel Filters – Primary and secondary
Fuel Filtering Funnel
Hoses – Min 6 feet each size
Oil absorbing bilge pads (min 10)
Alternator Belts
Thermostat & gaskets
Engine service & parts manuals
Mechanics Manual – For your engine specifically
Non-Perforated Hose Clamps – Stainless AWAB type various sizes

Electrical:

Inverter – Spare at least 500 watts to power small tools
Electrical Connectors – Assorted marine grade various sizes
Multimeter – Clamp on AC/DC to measure amps, volts and resistance
Heat Shrink – Adhesive lined
Crimper – Ratcheting style for marine grade terminals
Silicone emergency tape
Self fusing tape
Zip Ties
Wire – Assorted gauges 6 feet min per size.
Jumper Wires 10 ga- With alligator clips on each end
Wire Strippers
Light Bulbs – Spares for each socket on the boat
Wire Snake
Terminal strips assorted

Misc:

Turkey baster
Stainless Steel Bar Stock
Aluminum Bar Stock
Stainless Steel Dodger Tubing – short length
Velcro – Regular and industrial grade
Grease – Water proof winch grease
PB Blaster
BoeShield
Lanocote
Tef Gel
Wax Toiletbowl Ring
Tru-Plug
Sika 295UV – Or equivalent
Wet Suit, Mask & Fins, hood
UV Resistant Duct Tape
Stainless Steel - Screws, nuts, bolts, fender washers, nyloc nuts, etc.
Tape – Electrical plus green painters tapes
JB Weld – Or equivalent
C-Clamps
Label maker
Bosuns chair = 2
Spare boat hook = 2
Spare halyard.
R-134 and charger adapter for refrigeration system
Spare prop, nuts & key
Prop Puller
Emergency tiller
Outboard motor fuel line with priming bulb
Check. Oh, you forgot rum and condoms. (Turkey baster is a nice touch though.)
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  #126  
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Re: Bryan Chong's first hand recount of the Low Speed Chase tragedy

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Check. Oh, you forgot rum and condoms.
Yeah I forgot my entire "medical" stock pile....

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
(Turkey baster is a nice touch though.)
Never know when you might need to artificially inseminate someone or clean up spilled battery acid or oil.....
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  #127  
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Re: Bryan Chong's first hand recount of the Low Speed Chase tragedy

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Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Where does the nanny madness stop? What is "safe" and prudent for YOU may not be safe and prudent for ME....
Honestly maine, I think you're making a weak point...rather hysterically...but still weak. The USCG is doing the right thing. And the OA - and wider SF racing community - will make the right call in imposing some sensible rules for increased safety in the future races. It'll work out.

And you'll still be free to use your turkey baster as you wish.
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  #128  
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Re: Bryan Chong's first hand recount of the Low Speed Chase tragedy

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Honestly maine, I think you're making a weak point...rather hysterically...but still weak. The USCG is doing the right thing. And the OA - and wider SF racing community - will make the right call in imposing some sensible rules for increased safety in the future races. It'll work out.
Sure..... As I said my "opinion" and it differs from yours... I think I have made my point "sarcastically" not "hysterically". The only ones getting hysterical are the ones who have resorted to four letter....... well.......

If 1 person had perished would the USCG have done this? Doubtful. It has apparently happened before, and they have not. It is still but ONE tragic accident in a long history of safe rounding. I just find the reaction is one of the knee jerk type and I see it as a move of public appeal, not real problem solving....

Quote:
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And you'll still be free to use your turkey baster as you wish.
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  #129  
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Re: Bryan Chong's first hand recount of the Low Speed Chase tragedy

Aside from how the boats are equipped I am not sure why a big time investigation is necessary? Bryan didn't mention any kind of gear failure. I believe the SF Police Dept did their investigation and determined it was an "accident". I don't know of anything else being found other than that they got too close to the rocks. Solution, stay farther away from the rocks by whatever means available. Am I over simplifying the whole thing?

Paul T
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Re: Bryan Chong's first hand recount of the Low Speed Chase tragedy

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Originally Posted by dabnis View Post

Solution, stay farther away from the rocks by whatever means available.


Am I over simplifying the whole thing?

Paul T
No not at all. It's pretty simple....

Lesson learned, give wider berth to the lee shores of the Farallones. Now lets race... Oh yeah we can't Captain Cindy said we can't.....
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 04-28-2012 at 02:59 PM.
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