3 Dead in Sailing Yacht Crash in Race from Newport California to Mexico. - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 104 Old 04-29-2012
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re: 3 Dead in Sailing Yacht Crash in Race from Newport California to Mexico.

Sailing can be as dangerous as mountaineering or back-country skiing or more so.....R.I.P....condolences to the families for the loss of these people...hope the missing are found soon...lets wait a while and get more info....the thread will be here
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post #12 of 104 Old 04-29-2012
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re: 3 Dead in Sailing Yacht Crash in Race from Newport California to Mexico.

Very sad.

Several things jumped out at me when I first read the story.

The boat was a rental. Was the crew experienced? This is a very fun race down to Mexico and a lot of crew don't take it as seriously as they should. Not saying that's the case here but could be a factor.

The accident happened at about 0130. Was there a proper watch, was the watch well rested and alert or were they a bit bleary eyed from a long day of prep and racing a 37 footer a bit short handed.

I know from personal experience you can't expect to be seen by large commercial traffic. And even if seen the pilot may assume you will give way and if they wait until too late to take evasive action....
My bet is that they weren't even seen.

Extremely tragic and I can only hope that the Coast Guard won't overeact and suspend offshore racing like they did after the San Francisco tragedy.
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post #13 of 104 Old 04-29-2012
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re: 3 Dead in Sailing Yacht Crash in Race from Newport California to Mexico.

Newport,

It is difficult to imagine just how fast commercial ships travel compared to our little vessels.

It is also difficult to imagine how easy it is for a commercial ship to not see a small sailing vessel - even with a careful watch.

Also note, the Navy and US Black Ops guys use the area extensively for training. the black ops don't show up on AIS
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post #14 of 104 Old 04-29-2012
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re: 3 Dead in Sailing Yacht Crash in Race from Newport California to Mexico.

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Newport,

It is difficult to imagine just how fast commercial ships travel compared to our little vessels.

It is also difficult to imagine how easy it is for a commercial ship to not see a small sailing vessel - even with a careful watch.

Also note, the Navy and US Black Ops guys use the area extensively for training. the black ops don't show up on AIS
In my earlier post I described our experience in SF Bay. The day was clear, about lunch time, in the winter, very little boat traffic on the Bay. The ship never blew it's whistle, or varied it's speed or course, I can only imagine the skipper assumed a boat our size would have a motor and that we would get out of the way. Had our motor not started we would have been run down. Yes, they go really fast.

Paul T
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post #15 of 104 Old 04-29-2012
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re: 3 Dead in Sailing Yacht Crash in Race from Newport California to Mexico.

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Very sad.

Several things jumped out at me when I first read the story.

The boat was a rental. Was the crew experienced? This is a very fun race down to Mexico and a lot of crew don't take it as seriously as they should. Not saying that's the case here but could be a factor.
A few details...

This boat was part of the charter fleet of Marina Sailing in Redondo Beach (I charter boats from them occasionally). They don't own the fleet themselves but rather act as more of a management company. From what I can tell in the articles, it sounds like the boat wasn't chartered during the race but was actually being used by the owner.

I took sailing classes through Marina Sailing and they were pretty extensive. They require ASA certification to charter boats and have someone walk through all the features of the the boat before you can take it out.

In case anyone was wondering about the boat, here are the details:
Marina Sailing
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post #16 of 104 Old 04-29-2012
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re: 3 Dead in Sailing Yacht Crash in Race from Newport California to Mexico.

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In my earlier post I described our experience in SF Bay. The day was clear, about lunch time, in the winter, very little boat traffic on the Bay. The ship never blew it's whistle, or varied it's speed or course, I can only imagine the skipper assumed a boat our size would have a motor and that we would get out of the way. Had our motor not started we would have been run down. Yes, they go really fast.

Paul T
Yes, same thing here--no signal, no radio, no change of course, no response to radio after he passed. I rode up on the stupid s.o.b.'s bow wave he was so close. Perhaps the CG needs to start monitoring the actions of commercial vessels which are clearly in violation of COLREG basic rules and start passing out some fines. I can understand the fact that large vessels cannot maneuver in restricted waterways which is covered in the rules but simply ignoring the presence of smaller, slower vessels in unrestricted waters is dangerous and unacceptable. These guys move too damned fast for sailboats to get out of the way unless they AT LEAST use horn signals to indicate "passing to starboard" or "passing to port." Maybe these captains get their licenses at Sears.
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post #17 of 104 Old 04-29-2012
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re: 3 Dead in Sailing Yacht Crash in Race from Newport California to Mexico.

Here we go. Speculating on these poor lost souls. Did they die cause they were too macho to turn on the motor? Why were the dummies going through shipping lanes? Surely they did something wrong. Guess what guys. We have no idea what happened yet and it is extremely disrespectful to be disparaging these fines sailors when we don't even know if they did anything wrong. How about letting this get investigated before we start pointing fingers at our own fellow lost sailors.
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post #18 of 104 Old 04-29-2012
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re: 3 Dead in Sailing Yacht Crash in Race from Newport California to Mexico.

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If you see danger would you think the freighter must see me
Large or not, never assume you are seen
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re: 3 Dead in Sailing Yacht Crash in Race from Newport California to Mexico.

I suspect it was the owner, Theo Mavromotis. He sails in the same class (cruising gennaker) as my families boat; I have had beers with him after the race in 2009 which he won (he protested us.) He always places pretty high in the race standings, so he would have likely gone way offshore this year as no wind. Based on my conversations with him, seemed like a competent sailor. Note sure if had radar but race rules require a radar reflector.

My guess: I agree with most everyone else, the freighter is at fault. I know that the US Nx to Mariners IDs the race and its is announced by both the CG and Mex Navy on radio repeatedly. So no lookout, no radar, and ran someone down.
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post #20 of 104 Old 04-29-2012
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re: 3 Dead in Sailing Yacht Crash in Race from Newport California to Mexico.

never ASS U ME you are seen--i learned very early inmy life that sailboats are INVISIBLE to other boats. rip to the souls, and PLEASE WATCH OUT WELL.


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